Youngest Daughter in bits on phone - advice please

[Icecreamlover63]

My Youngest Daughter has just been on the phone and is extremely upset. I have seen this coming for some time but i cannot say anything about peoples relationships however i would appreciate some advice.
In 2019 my daughter was engaged and found out that her then fiancée had spent £3 on gambling in six months. He promised he would not do this again was so very repentant and she forgave hi.
In very early 2020 they got married. They moved into military housing about 8 miles away and appeared very happy.
Then they got transferred to Wiltshire and my daughter got a job at a local hospital and promptly made lots of friends and loved her new job. She joined a gym and lost some weight and was looking amazing.
Her husband's, Mother came over in October 2021 and was furious as she had just had a phone call completely out of the blue. It was the bank informing her that her sons account was overdrawn by £600. (when her son went to Afghanistan she had to have access to his accounts in case he died) and she had forgotten all about it.
The account was overdrawn because of 2 large bets of £500 each.
My daughter again lost her temper and he promised never to do it again.
Just before Christmas he took £500 out of their joint account to pay his friend as apparently he had bailiffs at the door. Then he took another £250 out a one of his friends could not see his children. My daughter said can you give those two friends the account number for our joint account so they can pay it back into the account it came out of. Guess what he said he wouldn't and said they money was going back into his sole account.
He has not spoken to my daughter most evenings and only watches football on sky. He refuses to go out at all in January and has ben very rude to her on lots of occasions.
Basically she has had enough of the gambling and the lies and just basically being ignored.

Fast forward to today!! She has just gone back to collect some of her bits and he started screaming at her and saying she was sneaky moving half of the money into her savings account before she had even spoken to him. She moved it this morning as she did not want him to be reckless and bet it away. He then started to blame her for having mental health problems and that when she was at home she was unhappy (not true) and that he had to speak to welfare in the Army to get married quarters early. They got their married quarters 3 weeks before they got married (which is the normal time line).
He has told her she always runs back to London when she is upset. Again not true she has been to us 4 times in 4 months and two of those times he was with her.

She is so upset and so distraught I honestly don't know what to do and she is driving back home now. I wish i could say she was right but I feel it would be wrong for me to say so. Please can you advise me what to do and also if you think she has made the right decision.
I do understand there is 2 sides to the story but my daughter has moved half way across the country and has not lied, she is devestated.

Apologies that I have not read all the replies after about midway through but have read all the OP responses.

So his work know he's got a gambling problem and they are getting him help - this is great.

However - I know you have said that he wants to keep the house and that is why he isn't telling them that she's moved out - this is the important bit because if they separate and she moves out he is not entitled to that house, he's only entitled to a room in the block. He doesn't want to change his PSTAT to single because it starts the clock ticking of the 93 days before he needs to give up the tenancy and move.

This is also important because while he has the house, it's easier for him to pressure her to stay or to come back.

It is also easier for him to hide what he is doing, and if he's in the block and known to have welfare issues it's easier for people to keep an eye on him which is definitely not what he will want.

Regardless of whether people think he's going to escalate this into lots of nastiness towards your daughter I think that welfare need to know about the change of relationship status so they can get him moved back into the block.

@Icecreamlover63 - this bit - "He is now texting her saying she should at least try one more time to save the marriage." - there IS NO SHOULD.

There is zero obligation on your DD to keep "trying" to save a marriage that is doomed, all the while he is gambling. She goes back - he carries on gambling. She has it right - he's had ample opportunities to try and fix this before, and hasn't done so, because he hasn't needed to. Now he does have a need to - but it STILL "shouldn't" bring her back to him because he Fucked It All Up.

He needs to realise this - he's lost her.

There's also the fact that if he leaves married quarters everyone will know she's left him. He's also trying to save face, but your daughter shouldn't concern herself with that.

Be careful that she doesn’t fall for some grand gesture - an OTT holiday that he books, bringing forward having a baby etc - any promises or grand gestures are manipulative, controlling and self serving - they are to obligate your DD to him.

He won’t change and his demanding behaviour now shows you that he can’t even honour her basic needs of personal space.

He has been away for a few days he is due back either today or tomorrow. My DD has been at her sisters and to be honest I’m just tired of it now.
I think it’s going to get nasty now and I really hope I’m wrong. He has lots of paperwork at my house and I need to post it to him.
My Daughter said he has be amicable regarding items in the house and also money so that’s good. However once her stuff goes abit each weekend I think he will naturally become more upset.
I expect he went back home without the knowledge that his parents know everything because his parents phoned us and asked us. I very calmly explained all the gambling details and the fake break in the photocopy of her credit card. They were very very shocked and I suspect he has had an earful of it this weekend. He had no idea they knew so it must have been very uncomfortable, to say the least.
I’m still sad and taking each day at a time. I hope things get better but I have a sneaky feeling they will get worse before they get better x

Follow your feeling, @Icecreamlover63 - that's not sneaky, that's your gut instinct, and probably helped along by those of us suggesting that things could turn nasty quite fast.

I really hope not - the best outcome is that he is ashamed of what he has done to your DD, to himself and to their marriage - and that he accepts that, gets the help he needs and leaves your DD alone.

But there's little point expecting that - as my Mum used to say, hope for the best but expect the worst and you'll rarely be disappointed. She was right too! However much you think you know someone, and think they wouldn't stoop so low, or do "that" (whatever it may be) - just accept it's a possibility and then you're not blindsided when it actually happens.

I too would expect it to get nasty.

He has form for being very nasty.

Why wouldn't he get nasty now that his plans are being thwarted by your daughter.

That's why the Welfare office at the base needs to be informed.

@Icecreamlover63

Aren't they in base housing (or whatever they call it in the UK)? That does give her a bit of leverage doesn't it? If he starts getting nasty could she tell him to back off or she'll let his CO know?

As far as his paperwork at your place, I'd box it all up and mail it to him the same day she makes her final exit. And if I were her I'd start moving the small things and papers that he won't notice first then work up to the bigger things closer to leaving.

Your dd needs to divorce him really fast as whilst she is still married to him she will be liable for any gambling debts he runs up. Tell her that so she knows.

So yesterday took on a sinister connotation he came in from GA and DD asked how he got on and unfortunately it descended into an argument. Both of them had agreed she could take half of her belongings this weekend and half next weekend it was no problem to either of them.
Last night he insisted she take all of her belongings home this weekend my DD explained that she only had a small car and it wouldn’t fit in. He said it would and proceeded to squash every single thing into her car shouted at her to give him the key. She did an underarm throw and said ‘catch’. She then drove off. We paid for her to stay in a hotel last night and she was warm and safe.
The reason she did not contact welfare at the army barracks because SIL wanted to keep the house. She offered to live at a friends house whilst she worked her notice and it was SIL or wanted her to stay in the house he said there wasn’t a problem.
He has threatened to phone all of her friends and tell them she is unstable he has also threatened to call her hospital and say she is unstable.

Actually she was great last night she had a king size bed and deep bath and the lady at the hotel said she could stay tonight as well.

I think he realised how much he over reacted because he started texting me my husband my daughter and my other daughter.
He started to say he was going to call the police if she didn’t tell him where she was. Then we all text him and said we knew where she was and she was safe and warm. He wanted to know where she was but we didn’t tell him because we was scared he would go to the hotel.
She has gone to work today as she is looking after cancer patients who need her.

He’s getting more and more unhinged.
Your DD MUST tell the Army that she’s moved out….today.

Can you or your husband go and stay with her until she can leave her job? I'd be very concerned that he will follow her from work to the hotel.
You say that you think he realised how much he was overreacting, but he may well not be rational and be spiraling out of control
She should tell the army that she has moved out and that he is threatening to tell her friends and employer that she is unstable

This man is dangerous. Your dd needs to be very careful and preferably not spend time alone with him. I know you don't want to believe it of your SIL but it sounds as thought it is getting to the stage where he could just snap and really hurt her.

Your dd also needs to consider whether she really wants to get involved with a potential fraud relating to military housing. I don't know whether she is on the lease but if so, she might be held liable as well.

So - to be clear - has she now got ALL her stuff out of the house? And she's given him back the key, so now, she no longer lives there.
At this point she has to contact the Welfare officer to state that she has left and wont' be returning - I'm pretty sure somewhere early on in the thread, it was said that if she doesn't, then she's party to the deception and the MoD don't take kindly to that. So for her own protection, she needs to tell them.

QUite honestly, too fucking bad if your sonIL wants to keep the house - he's no longer entitled to it so he can go back to the block after the 93 days (or sooner, if they tell him so).
I understand that your DD is trying to "be nice" but the time has gone for this. She has to do what is right for HER - and that includes telling the welfare officer that she has left him.

If he wanted to keep the house so badly then maybe he shouldn’t have shoved all her things into her car and demanded the key. Too late now. He’s kicked her out and she must tell the army she doesn’t live there anymore.

He can't keep the house, it's not his. She needs to let the Army know that she has moved out and that the relationship has broken down. Married quarters have specific rules around occupancy and he no longer meets (well won't in 93 days) the criteria for entitlement to married accommodation.

This man is dangerous.

Please know that.

He is threatening your DD - he has no boundaries by harassing you all.

He will stalk her at work and follow her.
She needs to tell her work.

I would be seriously tempted to intervene and tell the welfare officer yourself.

You can probably do it anonymously.

Ensure that they know if long term pattern of repeated emotional violence.

The escalation in his demanding and harassing behaviour and that he is trying to hunt her down.

Please don’t minimise this.

Why are you both still protecting him over the house? The last thing your DD needs is to be roped in as a party to (more) game playing and deceiving your SIL's employer. I don't know anything about army housing and the clauses that govern it but I understand what so many posters have already spelt out clearly.

He's still trying to cover up and deny at any cost.

@HippoRaine

There's an awful lot of specific detail in this post, are you sure your daughter would be ok with her personal life being shared on a huge website like this?

That was my first thought as well.

I would be seriously tempted to intervene and tell the welfare officer yourself.

This.
Frankly, I would already have done it by now, whether DD likes it or not.

DD needs protecting from

1. being seen to collude in fraudulent housing claim/allocation
2. any further harassment & Hoovering from SiL
3. financial abuse, debt being racked up in her name, credit card fraud (for all she knows, he has multiple impressions of her card details - not just the one he was caught with)
4. any HINT of being complicit in (3)
5. a desperate man who will now go through various stages of manipulation. He's done pleading, he's done Future Faking, he's now done anger (the distressing car packing scenario) ...

... are you going to give any MORE chances for this to just come good on its own, or intervene now? Or allow DD to call the shots from her current denial/minimisation mindset, & see what he does next?
Because it sounds from here that
6) escalation to bonkers level could be his next step.

I am so sorry to word this so tactlessly IceCream - but your family is making the rookie error of being reasonable people who are assessing SiL's potential reactions from a reasonable point of view, & expecting a reasonable response.

SiL is not behaving rationally.
It does not matter how "nice" he was before. It does not matter that DD feels sorry for him. That man needs an intervention, & it needs to be from his Welfare Officer &/or his CO.
Not DD, not her parents, not his own parents.
Professionals, who will have seen this before & know what to do.

www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/im-worried-about-someone-else/
Plan safe strategies for leaving an abusive relationship.

www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/making-a-safety-plan/

Womens Aid would be a prime source of support & safety advice for you right now OP - please contact them.

At the military base where I worked Married Quarters were in short supply, so a family would be waiting for the house he wants to hang on to.
I agree with PP, ring the welfare officer yourself and state that she has moved out with all her belongings and he has her key.

She also needs to tell the hotel reception that under no circumstances can anyone be allowed to go to her room/know her room number, however charming the man who wants to surprise her is.... I would be changing hotels regularly too. ( 2 nights in the Premier Inn, 2 nights in travelodge etc. I would probably use an alias when booking as well.
Get her to tell work and I suggest informing the Police via 111 that she has left an abusive relationship and her ExH has threatened to report her missing and possibly vulnerable for MH reasons. She is safe and well, and any report is part of his abuse.
Seriously, I don't think any of you are sufficiently alarmed about his behaviour.

Seriously, I don't think any of you are sufficiently alarmed about his behaviour.

Yes, & PP are not looking to be alarmist - just aware of 'the pattern' (see WA re: definiiton of coercive control) or "the script" (see Lundy Bancroft et al).

IceCream - do you feel that DD & possibly you are frightened of 'reporting' in case it angers SiL & he becomes (even more) retaliatory?
It is entirely understandable for you to feel something like "wait for for him to calm down & things will blow over" - but it is surrendering the only agency DD currently has (apart from hiding in hotels) - the ability to shine the light on the facts, & have a professional deal with them.

DD is trying to manage a situation she doesn't yet fully understand (because she is in it, & doing as best as she feels possible: better understanding will come only when she removes herself entirely from the toxic dynamic she is part of).
It may feel counter-intuitive, but the safest & wisest action is for her, or you, to contact Housing to say she is gone (& let the 93 day process start, & SiL respond to that as he will), contact the Welfare Officer to say she is currently Address Unknown, as SiL is experiencing difficulties, behaving irrationally & angrily - & must NOT know her whereabouts.
At that point she also needs to tell WO or CO about the threats he made to call her mental capacity into question, & relate what happened with the car/key throwing incident.
There must also, surely be a Women's Services Officer type person who she can talk to? By phone, not going to the base.

This bizarre & disturbing threat to blacken her name by pretending she is the crazy one is classic.
Not because it has any chance of working - but because it shows the degree of contempt & anger he is prepared to unleash on her.
What next - he carts her off the The Asylum, like a villain from a Gothic horror novel?

Can you see how disturbed his thinking is?
He is about to get blown wide open - he can no longer conceal some of his more nefarious actions from his parents now they know about the credit card copying etc. The military will rumble him sooner or later. He will be looking for somebody to be the recipient of all his "externalised shame" & by letting DD imagine she can handle the next 3 weeks solo, you are increasing the risk that it will be her.

Apologies for the strong words OP.
I don't want you to feel that you are wrong & being scolded, because you are doing your best in a very hard situation. You are managing so much already & I know you feel your hands are tied. It is also a thin line between not telling DD what to do, & getting through to her how precarious the next 3 weeks are.

Have a read of this for advice, to forward to DD, because the first 2 paragraphs certainly apply to her & she needs the heads-up - THIS is exactly what her H is doing, & the later paragraphs (obviously not the 'children' part, but the pattern is the same) are how he is likely to escalate. She needs to know that keeping her head down - while ostensibly a sensible course - is in fact anything but.
DD needs to hand this over to experts now - WO & CO at the camp, plus any womens/DV officer there, AND get herself a contact at WA who will act as a support officer to her personally.
speakoutloud.net/intimate-partner-abuse/post-separation-abuse

@Icecreamlover63 you all need to stop communicating with this man or his family.
Just block and don't engage.

Your daughter needs to speak with her line manager or HR, explain the situation and that her husband is escalating and she needs to leave the area for her own safety and ask them to waive her notice period.

She needs to tell the police she is not missing. She has ended an abusive relationship.

Then she needs to come home.
Only then would I consider telling his employer she has left the house. Please don't put her at risk while she's still in the area. He's likely to fuck it up himself soon enough anyway.

DD needs to let her work know what has happened. It's not really right for them to hold her to her notice period when she has no 'reasonable' place to live within commuting distance. I wouldn't consider having to pay for 3 weeks in a hotel as 'reasonable'. And at this point would it be 'safe' for her to stay with her friend if he knows where that friend lives? They really should release her from notice with no negative repercussions. At the very least, she needs to let them know that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he will come looking for her at work. I'll bet they'll be more than happy to let her out of her notice period then.

You know, if he keeps this up, I'd tell him to go ahead and call the police and report her missing. Because the first thing they'd do is ask for a list of her family and friends and call them and I'm sure everyone on that list would be more than happy to say exactly why she's 'missing'. She's not going to get in trouble for 'disappearing'. Adults are entitled to disappear if they want to. And the police will NOT tell him where she is should they find out for that very reason.

I agree with calling the housing unit. But it may be better to call once she knows if she'll be able to leave work earlier than her notice period. If he's likely to raise a scene, best to do it once she's no longer in the area. No need to poke the hornet's nest if he's likely to get volatile.

This thread is now being deleted.
I want to thank everyone so much for their kind, sincere and above all generous time and help.
My eyes have been opened to this wonderful service and the people that take time to help others
Thank you