Does shone rhyme with dawn or zone?

[youdialwetile]

DD has been told she's saying it wrong - may be both as used in different places?

@Anonymous48 that blog is a BRILLIANT find! Thank you.

[quote HaveringWavering]@Anonymous48 that blog is a BRILLIANT find! Thank you.[/quote]
You're welcome. Pretty interesting, huh?

@LizzieAnt

I'm not at all sure of the difference between regional variation and accent to be honest. Help! It's an interesting area though.

The only other word I can think of is dialect, which would cover using a completely different word to mean a scone. I suppose what you mean @Anonymous48 is that accent accounts for regular and predictable differences in pronunciation like tree for three or cut to rhyme with put, and that unpredictable one-offs like one to rhyme with gone, or shone to rhyme with bone (or in the US not to rhyme with bone) are regional variations. I don’t think that argument can really work, though as there are always anomalies in differences of pronunciation. Why doesn’t crass rhyme with pass in RP, for example. Perhaps you could call it dialect if that helps. It sounds more acceptable for teachers to correct dialect as that covers non-standard words and grammar as well as pronunciation.

Here's another example. Some people in a particular part of West Yorkshire pronounce the word "master" with a long A, like a southerner would do. All other similar words they pronounce with short As (grass, laugh, bath, etc.). Would you consider that unexpected pronunciation of master to be their accent, or a regional pronunciation difference? These people have solid Yorkshire accents, you wouldn't mistake them for anything else, but they pronounce one word in a very southern way.

@Anonymous48
Interestingly, I'm Irish and say master with a long a and the other words you mentioned with a short a too So their pronunciation of master wouldn't sound unexpected to me. But as to why it's said like this, I really don't know.

Yes, I think which words have a long a and which don’t is very unpredictable and demonstrates that accents are always unpredictable and not just about predictable differences from a standard.

I've also realised from previous threads that what I describe as a long 'a' sound (for example) is actually a different vowel sound to what many in the UK describe as a long 'a' (and which some transcribe as 'ar', I think).

It's hard to have these discussions without knowing and using IPA. It's nice to still try though, even if it's a bit confusing at times

The vowel sound in master does seem to vary depending on where you live, even within England.
forvo.com/word/master/
I think I would call that accent, but as I said, I'm no expert.

I'm from West Yorkshire, to me, master is pronounced m-ar-ster, grass is gr-ass and bath and laugh have the same a sound as grass.
Oh, and shone sounds like sh-on and one sounds like wun.

Everyone else is wrong😁

I worked with a primary teacher who moved from south to north. She said it was easier to teach northern children phonics because the vowel sounds are more consistent up here.

eg: bad, bag, bat… then bAth rather than bArth.

@SecretKeeper1

I worked with a primary teacher who moved from south to north. She said it was easier to teach northern children phonics because the vowel sounds are more consistent up here.

eg: bad, bag, bat… then bAth rather than bArth.

Absolutely! And in that way, pronouncing shone to rhyme with zone makes much more sense than rhyming it with gone, because of the magic E. It just sounds strange to us who haven't grown up with it!

Indeed. There are a lot more -one words that rhyme with “zone” than there are with “gone”.

But what’s the crack with “done”?!

@SecretKeeper1

Indeed. There are a lot more -one words that rhyme with “zone” than there are with “gone”.

But what’s the crack with “done”?!

Neither

American songwriter Loudon Wainwright III rhymed 'cobblestone' with 'shone' in the song Ode to a Pittsburgh:

"Oh you were stained glassed
You were smokestacked
You were laid in cobblestone
You were trolley car tracked
And for you the red sky shone"

He grew up in Delaware but was a university student in Pittsburgh. I've always loved that pronunciation when he sings the song.

@Heronatemygoldfish

You have to read this out loud.

11 was a horse
12 was 12
1111 race
12112

(sorry)

it only makes sense if you pronounce 1 as wun. My original accent doesn't.

It works fine for me since one and won both rhyme with con in my accent :o