Does shone rhyme with dawn or zone?

[youdialwetile]

DD has been told she's saying it wrong - may be both as used in different places?

I'm Southern (West Country with Essex parents)

Horn, corn,
Dawn, lawn (similar to horn and corn but with slightly less drawl)
Law, for, more, moor
Zone, Phone, Moan
Shone, Gone, John
One, won, gun, sun, bun, tonne.

Presumably this child is American, being raised in the US, and therefore should pronounce it to rhyme with zone.

Are you serious? You think teachers should make children change their accents?! Even more unreasonable when you consider that only some Americans pronounce it that way!

Huh?!?

It rhymes with neither!

“Dawn” rhymes with “porn” (sorry!)

“Zone” rhymes with “cone”.

“Shone” rhymes with “gone”.

Simple, no?

The hell it does!
Listen to the U2 song (Dubliners are renowned for speaking the best English in Europe btw) and then come back…

@AmateurDad

The hell it does! Listen to the U2 song (Dubliners are renowned for speaking the best English in Europe btw) and then come back…

Or RTFT @AmateurDad? OP’s posts at least..

Dawn rhymes with born/ shone rhymes with gone/ zone rhymes with own.

@crazyjinglist

Presumably this child is American, being raised in the US, and therefore should pronounce it to rhyme with zone.

Are you serious? You think teachers should make children change their accents?! Even more unreasonable when you consider that only some Americans pronounce it that way!

It's not an accent, it's pronunciation. And I assume the child has an American accent anyway.

Zone tone bone clone
Shone fawn gone lawn
Jeez 🤣

It's not an accent, it's pronunciation

It's not an accent, it's pronunciation. And I assume the child has an American accent anyway.

The way you pronounce things depends in great part on your accent. We don't know that the child has an Anerican accent. And, as has been pointed out multiple times (including by people who live in America), not all Americans pronounce 'shone' to rhyme with 'bone', so I'm still not sure why you think this child should be made to.

Don, con, on

@AmateurDad

Huh?!?

It rhymes with neither!

“Dawn” rhymes with “porn” (sorry!)

“Zone” rhymes with “cone”.

“Shone” rhymes with “gone”.

Simple, no?

You could have made it even more patronising if you'd used "non?" at the end

dawn doesn't rhyme with porn. One had an "r" in it for a start

@CailleachGranda they do rhyme in non-rhotic accents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticityinn_English

Neither of those.
In the US it's pronounced the same as UK 'shown' I believe.
I would rhyme it with' gone'.

Neither! It rhymes with 'gone', 'on', 'con' ...

@crazyjinglist

It's not an accent, it's pronunciation. And I assume the child has an American accent anyway.

The way you pronounce things depends in great part on your accent. We don't know that the child has an Anerican accent. And, as has been pointed out multiple times (including by people who live in America), not all Americans pronounce 'shone' to rhyme with 'bone', so I'm still not sure why you think this child should be made to.

Admittedly I have not read the whole thread but I haven't seen any Americans commenting that it's not pronounced to rhyme with bone. That would surprise me because I thought it was standard. Presumably it's standard where this child lives, given what the teacher said. We don't know that the child has an American accent, sure. They could have just moved here. But they are being raised in the US and getting a US education.

You're right that pronunciations can vary depending on accents. (I can imagine a southern American drawing the vowel sound out so that it sounds like it has more than one syllable, for example.) But the difference between the sounds in bone and gone isn't just down to an accent.

But the difference between the sounds in bone and gone isn't just down to an accent.

@Anonymous48
I'd have thought that differences in the pronunciation of the vowels sounds of words was one of the key characteristics of accents...I'm not a linguist so very much open to correction though. What else is it down to?

I posted a link upthread which (I think) showed some differences in the pronunciation of shone as said by various American speakers. I'll see if I can find it again.

Here it is -

forvo.com/word/shone/

@LizzieAnt

But the difference between the sounds in bone and gone isn't just down to an accent.

@Anonymous48
I'd have thought that differences in the pronunciation of the vowels sounds of words was one of the key characteristics of accents...I'm not a linguist so very much open to correction though. What else is it down to?

I posted a link upthread which (I think) showed some differences in the pronunciation of shone as said by various American speakers. I'll see if I can find it again.

I'm not a linguist either, but I don't think a difference that big is accent. Just like I wouldn't consider the different ways British people say scone as down to accents, just regional variations in pronunciation. Does that make sense?

Maybe shone in the US is like scone in Britain! It's just not a word used very often. It surprised me when I first heard it pronounced like bone, and that was after I'd been in the US several years. But I've never heard it pronounced any differently here.

"The standard pronunciation of shone in AmE rhymes with bone and the usual pronunciation in BrE rhymes with on."

separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2014/02/shone-shined-and-digression-re.html

I'm not at all sure of the difference between regional variation and accent to be honest. Help! It's an interesting area though.

It rhymes with gone, never heard it pronounced any other way.

@Sartre

It rhymes with gone, never heard it pronounced any other way.

OK, but do you live in the USA like the OP?

@LizzieAnt

I'm not at all sure of the difference between regional variation and accent to be honest. Help! It's an interesting area though.

As I said, I'm no expert, but to me accents and regional differences in pronunciation feel like a different thing.

Here's another example. Some people in a particular part of West Yorkshire pronounce the word "master" with a long A, like a southerner would do. All other similar words they pronounce with short As (grass, laugh, bath, etc.). Would you consider that unexpected pronunciation of master to be their accent, or a regional pronunciation difference? These people have solid Yorkshire accents, you wouldn't mistake them for anything else, but they pronounce one word in a very southern way.

@Lightstoobright

What? As in 'the sun shone'? In my part of the country it rhymes with one/gone

One and gone are completely different sounds