To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall Part 2

[ClaudineClare]

A follow on thread from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4457488-to-be-really-enjoying-boris-johnson-s-downfall?msgid=114425763#114425763

All Dominic Raab could say today on the sky news interview ( summing up ) , was ' wait for the Sue Gray report and Labour would have been worse at dealing with the pandemic'
.. how does he know that Corbyn would have thrown parties during lockdown or messed up the vaccine programme? Hindsight is a wonderful thing for politicians isn't it ? I know that Sir Kier Starmer does this too, but honestly , they are clutching at straws at the moment and refuse to condemn the gatherings at all or even admit they were a bad idea.
I hope the report makes them all squirm.
But not holding my breath.

'those of us who want to discuss the issue of Johnson's potential downfall get on with it'

There's not much to 'get on with' is there until we know the actual facts that Gray will establish.

Johnson still seems very popular from what I've seen on sm. Yes Twitter isn't representative of the nation but many intelligent folk do seem to understand they've got the big things right like jobs, furlough, vaccines and the economy, whilst perhaps being a bit lax regarding workplace eating and drinking arrangements.

NEW: Downing Street says that Boris Johnson met Nusrat Ghani to discuss her allegations against Mark Spencer in 2020. As per Dominic Raab on shows this morning, Conservative Party position is that it will investigate only if she makes a formal complaint

twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1485202029085614080?s=21

Another, wait for the report.

@JaniieJones

'those of us who want to discuss the issue of Johnson's potential downfall get on with it'

There's not much to 'get on with' is there until we know the actual facts that Gray will establish.

Johnson still seems very popular from what I've seen on sm. Yes Twitter isn't representative of the nation but many intelligent folk do seem to understand they've got the big things right like jobs, furlough, vaccines and the economy, whilst perhaps being a bit lax regarding workplace eating and drinking arrangements.

Is Sue Gray going to report on the behaviour of the Whips in trying to blackmail MPs? Is Sue Gray going to report on the behaviour of the government's chief whip concerning the sacking of Nusrat Ghani?

Do they have any bearing on Johnsons demise?

jgw1:
Ah JRM is some kind of secretary who does the timetables.
Is that all he does

Of course not. What an odd thing to ask.

I saw on Sky news that Nusrat Ghani was contacted by the PM in 2020 and she didn't take up the offer to make formal complaint. This was a number 10 statement today.
Makes me wonder why she didn't do it then ? Was she told to not 'rock the boat ' or bullied by the whips to stay quiet ? Or just felt that she couldn't do this at the time because she was concerned about her reputation? She is suggesting this is the case, which are all very serious allegations.
She only feels she can say anything now is because other MPs have also flagged up bullying claims too.
I totally believe that it goes on. It's just sad that it has stopped people whistle blowing before.
Let's hope that maybe this may be the start of changing such tactics as it must be so intimidating as well being wrong.
I hope she does make a formal complaint.

'Is Sue Gray going to report on the behaviour of the Whips in trying to blackmail MPs?'
'Is Sue Gray going to report on the behaviour of the government's chief whip concerning the sacking of Nusrat Ghani?'

1. Hmm, think the Met are investigating Wraggs 'blackmail' allegations.

1. Ghani already met with BJ to discuss her dismissal in 2020, she was told to submit a formal complaint regarding her allegations and didn't so I presume she could still do so.

I don't think everything is Gray's remit, do you?

@ClaudineClare

Floridanus is that a typo or deliberate?

Is what? If you fail to be precise in your messages it just prolongs the thread unnecessarily, surely?

Or did you mean "Floridanus"? I don't know who posted that, but I don't mind.

It would not surprise me at all if the PM is keen on saying one thing to someone ' yes, you must be do this or that ' then quietly having a word with the whips or someone else to make sure it doesn't happen. That way he is seen to be fair and correct , but then getting someone else to do all the dirty work for him and the party quietly behind the scenes.
I've no idea if this is the case of course ( I'm a nobody ) , but it seems odd that the MP involved was invited to make a complaint 18 months ago and only now feels able to speak out or maybe go ahead and make one.
Why wait so long? Only because she feels she can now other people have come forwards to make similar claims and we know that the whips do have a lot of power as well
It's only an assumption I've made based on today's news, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are dirty tricks at play here and they just want things covered up
If the police are investigating Wragg's claims then surely they should investigate this too?

@Florianus

Or did you mean "Floridanus"? I don't know who posted that, but I don't mind.

Yes I did mean that. I won't chide you for not reading my post carefully enough, though.

The met said that they would only investigate Wragg's claims if he has evidence of criminal behaviour. I don't think anyone knows if he does or does not. As I understand it, he has not been bullied himself by the whips, but is simply claiming that other MPs have said they have been.

I find the Nusrat Ghani case very odd, since she was actually a Tory whip at the time she was sacked.

@JaniieJones

'Is Sue Gray going to report on the behaviour of the Whips in trying to blackmail MPs?' 'Is Sue Gray going to report on the behaviour of the government's chief whip concerning the sacking of Nusrat Ghani?'

1. Hmm, think the Met are investigating Wraggs 'blackmail' allegations.

1. Ghani already met with BJ to discuss her dismissal in 2020, she was told to submit a formal complaint regarding her allegations and didn't so I presume she could still do so.

I don't think everything is Gray's remit, do you?

I am quite clear that they are not part of Sue Gray's remit, I was confused because a previous poster was suggesting we should not talk about Johnson's downfall until the report, when Johnson has done such a good job of ensuring there are so many aspects of his downfall to talk about.

I thought the conversations regarding Ghana's faith came following a reshuffle when she was moved out of transport.
Can you be a whip and a junior minister?

Zahawi seems to be taking her claims seriously.

This comment is really quite damming
In the following weeks I was informed that if I persisted in raising this I would be ostracised by colleagues and my career and reputation would be destroyed.

If someone says something to someone without a paper trail , email or any other kind of evidence ( a mobile phone recording or whatever ) then it'll always be ' he said , she said' situation I suppose.
I heard that someone did have a recording? But not sure which case or if it'll be released.
Must be hard to switch your phone on without being seen if someone just drops by your office on the quick.
How can any of the MPs argue their case if they don't have any hard evidence? How can the police proceed ? Honest questions. I don't understand the law or how that would work ?

@Notonthestairs

I thought the conversations regarding Ghana's faith came following a reshuffle when she was moved out of transport. Can you be a whip and a junior minister?

Zahawi seems to be taking her claims seriously.

This comment is really quite damming
In the following weeks I was informed that if I persisted in raising this I would be ostracised by colleagues and my career and reputation would be destroyed.

She was both an Assistant Whip and a Minister within the Department for Transport from January 2018. It is not unusual for junior ministers to also be whips, and indeed the Chief Whip traditionally holds the ministeral role as Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury and hence lives at 12 Downing Street.

Interesting to note that Ghani is a leading figure in the Covid Recovery group.
It would seem as though members of all factions of the Tory party are fed up with the bullying.

Thanks for explaining jgw.

Sue Gray is said to be in possession of electronic records of everyone who attended the event, including their arrival and departure times, thanks to the electronic pass system at use in No.10

Johnson lives there. All that system denotes is who entered the building and when. It gives no indication of where they went once inside it.

@ClaudineClare

That is a no, then. What a shame, this was and could have continued to be a good discussion but it has been totally hijacked.

There’s no reason why it has to be. We could all ignore a particular poster and not respond to their attention seeking posts.

@Blossomtoes

Sue Gray is said to be in possession of electronic records of everyone who attended the event, including their arrival and departure times, thanks to the electronic pass system at use in No.10

Johnson lives there. All that system denotes is who entered the building and when. It gives no indication of where they went once inside it.

I suppose it depends whether you just need to swipe to access the front door, or to move around internally.

This is a interesting read re Prince Andrew & Johnson and that people are getting sick of ‘putting up with the bullshit of entitled men’

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/boris-johnson-and-prince-andrew-a-pair-of-entitled-men-no-longer-defying-gravity/

Sorry regarding plain old Andrew & Alexander de Pfeffle Johnson or whatever his real name is

Gordon Brown in the news highlighting how all the constant scandal surrounding Johnson is derailing the job he should be doing in public service and that his administration will end in scandal (which I think we’ve all surmised, it’s just a question of will he go in shame sooner or later?)

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1554462/Gordon-Brown-Boris-Johnson-warning-party-gate-Prime-Minister-resigns-vn

[quote 22itsallnew]Gordon Brown in the news highlighting how all the constant scandal surrounding Johnson is derailing the job he should be doing in public service and that his administration will end in scandal (which I think we’ve all surmised, it’s just a question of will he go in shame sooner or later?)

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1554462/Gordon-Brown-Boris-Johnson-warning-party-gate-Prime-Minister-resigns-vn[/quote]
I'm worried now, because I seem to agree with Gordon Brown, and this hasn't often happened before.