To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall Part 2

[ClaudineClare]

A follow on thread from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4457488-to-be-really-enjoying-boris-johnson-s-downfall?msgid=114425763#114425763

@ENoeuf

Checking in. Although I don’t think that many people in the real world are interested - none of the friends / family I’ve spoke to have really picked up on any detail.

That is why we have ended up with a charlatan PM and a corrupt government leeching off us. People should care, but many don't. They just tick a box every few years. Some don't even do that.

@Peregrina

And here I have my answer:

It was too ludicrous to deserve a reply, Peregrina.

Which really means that you know the answer is yes, but come out with guff about the PM running around the world, and does he dictate what his Foreign Secretary and Chancellor say.

Have you not heard of Cabinet reshuffles, when those appointed don't do what the PM wants? (Sorry, "strengthens his Front Bench team.")

Of course, but you were trying to argue that the Prime Minister dictates to the Leader of the House what business should be discussed. That is preposterous. The leader of the opposition would soon be up in arms if opposition days were cancelled, and the whole of parliament would not accept second readings or private members' bills being refused progress.

You really do need to stop imagining that Johnson is some sort of superman who can do anything and everything.

@ClaudineClare it really frustrates me when people say ‘oh they’re all as bad as each other’ about politicians. They are not. This shady crew seem to hit new lows each & every week.

[quote 22itsallnew]@Florianus so you’re going to stop telling people that Johnson didn’t know what a party is and that it/they were all arranged without his knowledge - as you confirm you don’t know that to be the truth. Good.[/quote]
I have never said that "Johnson didn't know what a party is". Please don't lie about what I have written.

@22itsallnew

From the papers today: Boris has decided to rest his entire defence on the claim that as he stepped on to the No 10 lawn he thought he was attending a work event. ‘That’s where he’s made his fatal mistake,’ one Downing Street insider told me. ‘He’s put Sue Gray in an impossible position.

‘For him to be cleared she now has to say she believes a party was organised by Boris’s staff, it was organised in his own garden, it was organised at a time when the rest of the country was being told to isolate, it was organised despite senior officials warning against it, but no one in No 10 bothered to check with the Prime Minister if the event was OK. It’s completely insane. It’s just not credible.’

Indeed, it’s preposterous, as were all the other piss taking events held by Government over the last 2 years when businesses and schools were prevented from operating normally, families stayed apart, but those at No 10 held soirées.

Yes indeed it is preposterous.

Reynolds was warned the party was not ok, did not mention this to Johnson, but instead decided to take Johnson to it. Utterly risible.

There was a interesting tweet yesterday pointing out that we only have Johnson’s word that he was there for 25 mins and asking why we believe this…

@Florianus ok so you agree you that Johnson knows what a party is. Why are you so sure you know the ‘truth’ that he was unaware he was attending one on that particular day?

Although I don’t think that many people in the real world are interested - none of the friends / family I’ve spoke to have really picked up on any detail.

This may depend on how much the rules affected you. My DB couldn't go to his MIL's funeral and is furious about it all.

Flo, you've tied yourself up in knots on this thread. I doubt you have any idea of what you have said half the time, so much of it is at odds with reality.

[quote 22itsallnew]@Florianus ok so you agree you that Johnson knows what a party is. Why are you so sure you know the ‘truth’ that he was unaware he was attending one on that particular day?[/quote]
I have no idea if his claim that he thought it was a work event to thank staff for their extra hours is true or not. What someone thought nearly two years ago will, I suspect, be impossible to prove.

The garden is both part of the work place and the garden for the private flats at 10 and 11, which is why it can just about be argued that Carrie Johnson wasn’t breaking the rules by sitting ‘next to’ a work meeting on the 15th (although clearly not in the spirit of what the PM was asking others to do).

You can argue all day about the report and what would be criminal behaviour, but that isn’t really the point.

We didn’t even have ‘bubbles’ in May 2020. Everyone was still regularly watching the nightly announcements, we were still clapping the NHS, schools wouldn’t go back for months. But that instinct that had been drilled into most other people - that we must stay apart to save lives didn’t exist at No. 10.

Maybe a few people still have charmed lives and can look back and think they had a good lockdown, but there has just been so much loss.

Of course, but you were trying to argue that the Prime Minister dictates to the Leader of the House what business should be discussed.

Of course nothing. I was asking how it is he holds the Office. He's not like the Speaker elected by the Commons.

Furthermore, if Rees-Mogg decided to go rogue and not promote what Johnson wanted, he would get the push.

Reynolds was warned the party was not ok, did not mention this to Johnson, but instead decided to take Johnson to it.

I have an image of Reynolds holding him by the hand (reins?), putting him a little party hat on, and leading him down to the garden. "Will there be a party bag Uncle Martin?" he says, skipping down the garden path...

@ClaudineClare exactly.
Even explaining to dh ‘Labour will make me pay more’ that it was the Tories that took over £200 net per month away (child benefit) and Labour gave us tax credits.
Friends / neighbours - we didn’t vote / they’re all at it/ I don’t care if he had a party, he’s running the country / which one is he? / at least it’s not Corbyn / you don’t remember the 70s .
Safe blue seat here and always will be until Johnson comes into their home and steals their silverware. Even then they’d probably believe it was their fault for leaving it out.

There was a interesting tweet yesterday pointing out that we only have Johnson’s word that he was there for 25 mins and asking why we believe this

Sue Gray is said to be in possession of electronic records of everyone who attended the event, including their arrival and departure times, thanks to the electronic pass system at use in No.10

*Of course, but you were trying to argue that the Prime Minister dictates to the Leader of the House what business should be discussed. That is preposterous. The leader of the opposition would soon be up in arms if opposition days were cancelled, and the whole of parliament would not accept second readings or private members' bills being refused progress.

You really do need to stop imagining that Johnson is some sort of superman who can do anything and everything.*

Can I just be clear, because you appear to have said it twice, that you think the Leader of the House Jacob Rees-Mogg decides to have opposition motions for himself (perhaps because it would be a nice thing to do)?

I think grass roots Tories are seriously worried.

Chatting to a local Tory councillor a few weeks ago , this was before latest revelations , and he said they are seriously thinking of a number of them standing as independents in May elections rather than Conservative party. I expressed my view that doing this would be deceitful.

I have never said that "Johnson didn't know what a party is". Please don't lie about what I have written.

And @Florianus you also never said that Johnson was a messenger.

In other news Boris has never lied and not been sacked for lying.

You really do need to stop imagining that Johnson is some sort of superman who can do anything and everything.

Whereas you don’t appear to think him capable of doing anything.

We already have a Royal Family to shake hands and read speeches.

[quote ENoeuf]@ClaudineClare exactly.
Even explaining to dh ‘Labour will make me pay more’ that it was the Tories that took over £200 net per month away (child benefit) and Labour gave us tax credits.
Friends / neighbours - we didn’t vote / they’re all at it/ I don’t care if he had a party, he’s running the country / which one is he? / at least it’s not Corbyn / you don’t remember the 70s .
Safe blue seat here and always will be until Johnson comes into their home and steals their silverware. Even then they’d probably believe it was their fault for leaving it out.[/quote]
I am sure that some Tories were also thinking that about North Shropshire which to its core is deeply conservative.

It is not impossible that other similarly "safe" Tory seats will fall.

My conservative voting friend is of the opinion that it's all a witch hunt and we should all move on, everyone broke the rules etc.
It's strange that if this had been Jeremy Corbyn or any other Labour leader in charge at the time of these parties during the lockdowns , she wouldn't be so keen to forgive and forget to be honest. Hung drawn and quartered wouldn't be good enough.
I take people's points that there are more important things going on, but to brush it under the carpets seems to be the Conservative voters mantra, nothing to see here or just bored with it. It won't stop them voting conservative either.
Have to see what the inquiry has to say.
Seems there may be another inquiry about bullying claims too.

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque I think I saw the same tweet about the 25 minutes- suggesting they tried to work out what would be a suitable amount of time (not too short but not long enough to indicate he was enjoying himself!)

Anyway I'm sure the witness will stick to the story.

Sue Gray is said to be in possession of electronic records of everyone who attended the event, including their arrival and departure times, thanks to the electronic pass system at use inNo.10

I wonder if they all have to swipe in and out every time they go out into the No.10 garden? If so, that may prove or disprove Johnson's claim about how long he stayed at the party. He was very exact about the timing, so I susprct he did only stay for that amount of time he says he did.

What the swipe records won't prove is whether or not he thought the party was actually a party.

By comparison my family are largely Conservative members and they are livid and exchanging messages.

They'd never vote any other way but they have been making their voices heard in the local associations.

jgw1:
Can I just be clear, because you appear to have said it twice, that you think the Leader of the House Jacob Rees-Mogg decides to have opposition motions for himself (perhaps because it would be a nice thing to do)?

I said that Rees-Mogg timetables Commons business, which includes opposition days. I said nothing about him deciding to have commons motions for himself.