To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall Part 2

[ClaudineClare]

A follow on thread from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4457488-to-be-really-enjoying-boris-johnson-s-downfall?msgid=114425763#114425763

@DuncinToffee

Mark Spencer, oh dear

twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1485017363661602821?t=NIuBO0GE91jPsVCroP87ig&s=19
NEW: Mark Spencer, the chief whip, publicly identifies himself as the individual who allegedly told Nusrat Ghani she was sacked as a minister for being Muslim.

Moments later, he deleted the Tweets

Spencer's admission is all over the media this morning, along with his denial that he ever spoke the words that Ghani claims.

@Trilley

In all likelihood Johnson was one of the hundreds of MPs who voted on the legislation. They were not, however, "his rules" as some try to claim.

Come off it. The rules around the pandemic were highly political. Do you imagine for one moment they would even have been put before Parliament if Johnson hadn't endorsed them?

For the rules to have been put before parliament, they would have had to be agreed by the entire cabinet, including Johnson. That doesn't make them "Johnson's rules" any more than "Sunak's rules" or "Truss's rules".

If the story in the press this morning is true - that the civil service has stuck two fingers up at the PM's demand that they should now return to work at the office - it should give those who imagine that Johnson is "in charge" of the civil service. One civil servant is quoted as saying that a number of colleagues have bought nice houses in the countryside during lockdown and "are betting that they will never, ever be forced back into the office".

I don't think any of us are under the impression Johnson personally manages each and every civil servant and will be dragging them into No.10 for a telling off for not going into the office. But you carry on belittling everyone Flo, it seems to give you pleasure. Have a lovely Sunday.

Either way, how then would it make them "his rules" ?

If it makes you happy, no doubt whoever referred to it would be happy to amend it to refer to the rules made by the Government of which he is head.

Why do Johnson supporters think that this sort of petty argument advances their case?

@Florianus

jgw1: So Jacob could introduce legislation to the House or otherwise organise business that went against what the Prime Minister wanted.

Yes. He can, and does, schedule Private Members' bills and Opposition Days, and matters such as second readings of bills in which the Lords (as with the current Crime Bill) have scuppered the government's intentions.

I am quite familiar with how government and parliament worked under previous Prime Ministers and this is really quite a change.

Perhaps you are not as familiar as you imagine?

Loving the notion that you think that Rees-Mogg does all of that off his own bat.

Why do Johnson supporters think that this sort of petty argument advances their case?

It’s certainly not an argument any PM or prospective PM would be suggesting.

I’m really not sure who would make that argument in RL. I think it’s just a game and we keep getting hooked back in.

Maybe it is best if we all just admit that Florianus is OF COURSE right about everything, is a genius and wonderful. Then he/she might stop spamming this thread.

@merrymouse

Why do Johnson supporters think that this sort of petty argument advances their case?

It’s certainly not an argument any PM or prospective PM would be suggesting.

I’m really not sure who would make that argument in RL. I think it’s just a game and we keep getting hooked back in.

It's possible that these weak and unconvincing excuses are just a trick to show us how worthless is Johnson's case.

From the papers today:
Boris has decided to rest his entire defence on the claim that as he stepped on to the No 10 lawn he thought he was attending a work event. ‘That’s where he’s made his fatal mistake,’ one Downing Street insider told me. ‘He’s put Sue Gray in an impossible position.

‘For him to be cleared she now has to say she believes a party was organised by Boris’s staff, it was organised in his own garden, it was organised at a time when the rest of the country was being told to isolate, it was organised despite senior officials warning against it, but no one in No 10 bothered to check with the Prime Minister if the event was OK. It’s completely insane. It’s just not credible.’

Indeed, it’s preposterous, as were all the other piss taking events held by Government over the last 2 years when businesses and schools were prevented from operating normally, families stayed apart, but those at No 10 held soirées.

@Trilley

Either way, how then would it make them "his rules" ?

If it makes you happy, no doubt whoever referred to it would be happy to amend it to refer to the rules made by the Government of which he is head.

Why do Johnson supporters think that this sort of petty argument advances their case?

I can speak only for myself, but it is as a supporter of truth that I think people should stop pretending that the PM broke "his own" rules, not as any supporter of the odious Johnson.

However, many people here don't seem to like the idea of honesty any more than the prime minister.

Florianus

Yes. He [Rees-Mogg] can, and does, schedule Private Members' bills and Opposition Days, and matters such as second readings of bills in which the Lords (as with the current Crime Bill) have scuppered the government's intentions.

I notice that you avoided my question of who appointed him to that position? (See my post of 18:39 last night if you missed it.)

Trilley:
Loving the notion that you think that Rees-Mogg does all of that off his own bat.

You are making things up again:

I did NOT say that he does all of those things "off his own bat". He has the support of the Parliamentary Business and Legislation Committee to help him. Did you not know that?

@Peregrina

Florianus

Yes. He [Rees-Mogg] can, and does, schedule Private Members' bills and Opposition Days, and matters such as second readings of bills in which the Lords (as with the current Crime Bill) have scuppered the government's intentions.

I notice that you avoided my question of who appointed him to that position? (See my post of 18:39 last night if you missed it.)

It was too ludicrous to deserve a reply, Peregrina. Do you really imagine the Prime Minister sits there telling the Leader of the House what to do, telling the Chancellor of the Exchequer how to run the civil service, dictating to Liz Truss what she should say to Putin, and so o? - inbetween running the civil service, representing UK on the world stage, running cabinet meetings, touring schools and hospitals around the country etc etc

This notion that the prime minister is some sort of superstar who does everything is simply nonsense.

He’s put Sue Gray in an impossible position. ‘For him to be cleared she now has to say she believes...

The purpose Sue Gray's enquiry is not to clear Boris Johnson.

Florianus - let me put the question about Rees-Mogg's position another way.

If Johnson gets the push, is Rees-Mogg automatically going to stay in that position, or would the new PM want to choose his or her own Cabinet and dictate who attends Cabinet? Which might involve keeping Rees-Mogg where he is, but might also send him back to the back benches.

@Peregrina

Florianus - let me put the question about Rees-Mogg's position another way.

If Johnson gets the push, is Rees-Mogg automatically going to stay in that position, or would the new PM want to choose his or her own Cabinet and dictate who attends Cabinet? Which might involve keeping Rees-Mogg where he is, but might also send him back to the back benches.

Again, you are personalising matters. The answer to your question is that if Johnson gets the push there will still need to be a Leader of the House to organise its day-to-day business. It is exceedingly unlikely that the new PM would have the time to do that as well as all the other things that people like to imagine he or she does.

@Florianus I can speak only for myself, but it is as a supporter of truth that I think people should stop pretending that the PM broke "his own" rules, not as any supporter of the odious Johnson

However, many people here don't seem to like the idea of honesty any more than the prime minister

So you think Johnson is odious and dishonest but you’ve spent hours sitting on a forum effectively supporting him truth? You must have a lot of time on your hands!

What will you say if Sue Gray’s report comes out & points out that on the balance of all probabilities & evidence Johnson knew a boozy gathering in the garden of No 10 should not have been held? I mean how are you so sure that he didn’t know & it was all arranged behind his back? How do you know the ‘truth’? Maybe you’d better wait for that report you’ve been telling everyone else to wait for to establish the facts you seem so sure of?

And here I have my answer:

It was too ludicrous to deserve a reply, Peregrina.

Which really means that you know the answer is yes, but come out with guff about the PM running around the world, and does he dictate what his Foreign Secretary and Chancellor say.

Have you not heard of Cabinet reshuffles, when those appointed don't do what the PM wants? (Sorry, "strengthens his Front Bench team.")

22itsallnew:
Maybe you’d better wait for that report you’ve been telling everyone else to wait for to establish the facts you seem so sure of?

I couldn't have put it better myself.

dictating to Liz Truss what she should say to Putin

I don’t believe for one minute that you are serious, but I’m going to humour you.

You seem to be suggesting that Liz Truss has carte Blanche to say whatever she wants to Putin and the PM can just claim it wasn’t his fault because foreign policy isn’t his thing?

Good news for Johnson if she makes a mistake, but a bit tricky when he is also running around the world going to important international summits.

Or is he just reading from an autocue all the time? (unless talking about Cartoon pigs).

Checking in. Although I don’t think that many people in the real world are interested - none of the friends / family I’ve spoke to have really picked up on any detail.

Which really means that you know the answer is yes, but come out with guff about the PM running around the world, and does he dictate what his Foreign Secretary and Chancellor say.

But why is he running around the world? He doesn’t seem to have anything to do.

Flo didn't address the question of why there is children's play equipment in the No. 10 "workplace"either. But perhaps that is also a ludicrous question.🤷‍♀️

@Florianus so you’re going to stop telling people that Johnson didn’t know what a party is and that it/they were all arranged without his knowledge - as you confirm you don’t know that to be the truth. Good.