To not get the e-mail sign off with pronoun's?

[hehimshehertheythem]

He/him and she/her at the end of an email. Margaret I know you're a woman and Jeff I know you're a man. Why are you teaching me to suck eggs. I don't get it?

I have not once never see a they/them as a sign off, so what is the actual point?

I for one will not be taking part in this madness. But would like to understand the thought behind the people that do? If there is any thought that is.

Signify you’re an ally to an ideology which says men can be women because they say they are

No thank you

Personality profile = Myers Briggs, Disc, etc... Company paid for everyone to have one of these tests and then one of the managers suggested that everyone display their result publicly.

Ffs. I mean... honestly. What is wrong with these people?

@foxgoosefinch I think I love you! Your posts are brilliant. They express how I feel much better than I can express myself.

Of course we could all just use the umbrella terms 'it/that' which would be fully inclusive of all people, animals and inanimate objects. Far less complicated and no risk of offending a zebra who identifies as a coffee table.

I also remember when it was rude to refer to someone as “she” in their absence anyway. My mother would say “who’s she? The cats mother?”
If talking about someone in the absence I was taught to use their name.

I have a name which could be either male or female, and to confuse things my surname is a male first name.

To be honest whilst I respect people identifying as make / female or neither I don't actually think I use pronouns when emailing people.

I would write Dear X Thank you , can you please xxx many thanks 1winterblues.

So I really don't see the point of adding pronouns to email signatures

@DepletingDopamine

If Margaret and Jeff add their pronouns it displays that they are an ally and won’t assume another person’s gender. It promotes inclusivity. And no, I haven’t been on a course.

It stifles inclusively because it assumes that everyone shared in an ideological viewpoint akin to a religious belief - that of everyone having an inner "gender identity " which is separate from their biological sex - and of course many don't have an inner gender identity at all.

It also, of course, promotes sex inequality through the "stereotype effect", a measurable, studied phenomenon, whereby constantly labelling female employees as specifically female makes other people treat them worse, makes them underperformed, and increases workplace anxiety - but of course since the primary (even if not the only) people affected by this are women, nobody promoting "inclusivity" gives a flying fuck.

I have an unusual first name which some people assume is male. I’m happy for our work suppliers to think I’m male and don’t want to spell out to them that I’m not. There are some sexist attitudes in our industry.

@girljulian

I put mine in my sig because my name is Julian. I don’t like getting emails saying “Dear Mr Lastname” because I’m a woman.

Off topic, but Julian is a lovely name for a woman/girl.

I recently discovered that there is a parrot gender

lgbta.fandom.com/wiki/Parrotgender

There are even avian pronouns

en.pronouns.page/avi,avian,avians,avians,avianself,0,normative%20%E2%80%9Che/him%E2%80%9D

That page also notes that the normative is he/him (not she/her).

Always makes me giggle when an avid (so to speak) pronoun displayed assumes that a writer or thinker they have never heard of before is a man (a woman is never the default) and uses he/him.

Says it all really.

@Flocon

You might think Jeff is a man but he might identify as a woman on Wednesdays or something.

Yep. The only way you will know is to check the pronouns at the bottom of the email.

Don't get caught out, be like Jeff (He/him Mondays and Wednesdays, She/her the rest of the time)

It's a trend that I'm sure will be short-lived. To my mind it achieves nothing in an email sign-off other than show a 'certain way of thinking/being/living one's life'. Does that mean that if you don't buy into doing it, you'll be judged as not supportive of the cause it espouses?

@crazyjinglist

Since I started putting ‘she/her’ in my signature, that has happened far less.

Oh yes,that's another thing - why the need to put both 'she' and 'her'? It's not like you're going to have one gender when you're the subject of a sentence and a different one when you're the object! e.g. 'That Sam - she's lovely, I like him very much!'

I have a sort of unisex name (it's usually spelled differently for men and women, lots of people don't seem to know that). It's never arisen that anyone has assumed I'm male. If it happened (regularly) though, I'd probably add (Mrs) to my sign off. Because that's what people generally always did (before the apparent need to virtue signal). I wouldn't add pronouns, because I disagree with it on principle and would not like what it would appear to say about me.

Laughing out loud at that one. Brilliant, thanks for the giggle.

User
(miserable thing/it until after 2 cups of tea)

Thing is, I'm not an ally. Neither am I an enemy.
My views of your pronouns are none of your business. I am polite and will use them when speaking with you but no one can dictate how I speak about someone in their absence.
I don't actually want the world to know how I view myself. I'm not really interested in how most other people view themselves either!

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

It's a trend that I'm sure will be short-lived. To my mind it achieves nothing in an email sign-off other than show a 'certain way of thinking/being/living one's life'. Does that mean that if you don't buy into doing it, you'll be judged as not supportive of the cause it espouses?

True. If you don't join the pronouns at the bottom of emails brigade then you are not inclusive blah blah blah

I think that you are supposed to put she/her because you can also be she/they. So 'she' alone won't cut the mustard as these are two very different things..

I think it's to signal that they are "special" in some way.

My name is unisex, and people regularly assume I’m male

People regularly assume I'm male from being in a male dominated industry, having a title which people often associate with men in my industry. If its relevant I simply tell them I'm female. I don't offload my inconvenience to others by coercing people into announcing something they may want to keep private or forcing women to identify themselves when it increases discrimination.

I have colleagues who use they/them.

I've read the occasional article, maybe a personal profile of some celeb, where they/them has been used and I find it unreadable. Sometimes, depending on the context, it's really confusing when that plural pops up and I wonder who else collaborated on the book they wrote or whatever.

You can be fully inclusive without having to 'shout' about it though.

Once upon a time it was quite usual to refer to others as 'they' rather than he/she in conversation.

@334bu

**The Right to Privacy Everyone, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, is entitled to the enjoyment of privacy without arbitrary or unlawful interference, including with regard to their family, home or correspondence as well as to protection from unlawful attacks on their honour and reputation. The right to privacy ordinarily includes the choice to disclose or not to disclose information relating to one’s sexual orientation or gender identity, as well as decisions and choices regarding both one’s own body and consensual sexual and other relations with others.**

Demanding people declare their gender identity in the workplace is transphobic and contrary to the Yogyakarta Principles quoted above.

This , I've cut and pasted this , thankyou , I'm concerned this is happening bit by bit in my workplace and I needed a reply without the emotional response I'd be tempted to give

@Beamur

I think that you are supposed to put she/her because you can also be she/they. So 'she' alone won't cut the mustard as these are two very different things..

But that is just saying you alternate between she and they, and if that matters to you you probably need a little paragraph explaining when to use which. Just putting, say, she/their clarifies nothing.

@mogkat

I'm a cat, miow

Pronouns mi/ow

@girljulian

I put mine in my sig because my name is Julian. I don’t like getting emails saying “Dear Mr Lastname” because I’m a woman.

But putting she/her wouldn't make me think you were a woman. I'd think you were a man with major mental health issues, and I'd feel awkward using female pronouns so would probably still stick to male ones.

Unfortunately, the fact that email pronouns have been forced on people has lead me to doubt the authenticity of someone who has a clearly male name yet wants to be known by typically female pronouns. Seems like some people would do that purely to rebel.

I find it rather deranged on supermarket badges and the like. If you speak to a supermarket employee, you use the 2nd person, not the 3rd person

Eg: hello, do YOU sell x please?
Not: hello, do SHE sell x please?