To contact the school about this tomorrow

[cornbeeflegs]

My eldest DD (13) goes swimming with one of her friends on a Wednesday evening, has done since last August, at the local leisure centre. She goes straight from school to her friend's house, has dinner, does homework, etc and then they go to the pool for 8pm, spend an hour in the open swim session, then she gets dropped back here by one of friend's parents.
She came back very subdued this evening, thought maybe she'd had a fallout with friend or something, eventually she opened up and said she'd got into trouble with one of her teachers. Asked her which lesson it was in and what had happened, then she said it was at swimming.
Apparently DD and friend had been waiting for their lift home after swim session when one of their teachers had seen them, recognised them as being from her school because they were in uniform, and then proceeded to tell them off for not wearing it as per school rules, even though they weren't at school they were still "representing the school" by wearing it. She's asked them both to see her first thing tomorrow morning.
Usually I'm supportive of school and if my children transgress the rules then they face the consequences. But surely this is too harsh?

@lisaandalan

I'd go in with her in the morning and see the teacher and ask her was this really necessary to upset these girls all night. Well behaved pupils ect. Would you not be better off concentrating on the children whom don't behave. X

This thread explains to me why when I managed graduate entrants to the work force I had three separate calls from the mothers of a adults!

Handling little things like this as a teenager is a good grounding for the adult world. At 13 she can explain herself and see what the teacher has to say. She will likely just get reminded of the school rules and at 13 she should be able to understand this teacher is being petty but is technically correct so just shrug it off and move in.

This is part of growing up and if kids learn their parents will come charging in every time they disagree with a school rule they will never learn to pick their battles an express themselves.

They will be 22 year old whose mum calls their boss because they don’t think the holiday rota is fair.

In the letter I wrote arranging twice in one sentence when I meant liaising for one of them

My reasoning would be

Either the girls were behaving extremely badly when teacher approached them in which case as it occurred outside school and as a parent, I need to know

Or they had their uniform hitched up in a disrespectful way and I want to know that

Or this teacher is a bully and as a parent I need to know

My DD was bullied by her Maths teacher. I regret not standing up for my DD earlier.

Handling little things like this as a teenager is a good grounding for the adult world. At 13 she can explain herself and see what the teacher has to say. She will likely just get reminded of the school rules and at 13 she should be able to understand this teacher is being petty but is technically correct so just shrug it off and move in.

I understand your point
But disagree

Sure what happens at school is up to teachers to deal with but this is unusual to feel it necessary to approach children at 9pm at night outside in an entirely different venue of any school activity.

DD already indicated she felt 'told off' last night
.
Pupils are encouraged not to answer back teachers if they are being told off/ spoken to.
So in this instance involving the parent would be appropriate and would help model a way to ask for issue to be outlined and to discuss reasonably and to encourage DD to be able to advocate

I'm not suggesting parent does anything but listen and to feel supported to advocate for herself or to hear what DD didn't say about reason last night.

Sorry .. and meant and for DD to feel supported to be able to advocate for herself

I would be concerned about the teacher too. And wouldn't want my DD feeling alone in dealing with this. She and friend either were messing around loudly to have made a teacher who happened to be passing have a 'word' or this teacher is so draconian that it is as DD said it went down.

I hope OP gets feedback after school today and follows up with school tomorrow. Either way I would want to know as a parent, and want to hear from teacher why it was so important she approached outside school late in the evening.

If it turns out to be a minor infraction re ties not straight shirts not tucked in after dressing quickly from a swimming lesson seen at 9pm whilst waiting 5 mins for the dad giving them a lift home, then I would be reigning down a complaint about the inappropriateness of the teacher's actions.

I can understand why a PP said before, that DD doesn't have to attend this "meeting" & could/ or should wait until parent can be involved as it was '9pm? at night, nowhere near school.

It wasn't a school activity nor school grounds. So, it is very unusual for a teacher to approach to "tell off"

Usually teachers just say hi in passing if they see pupils out, or say "hey xyz I can hear you from over there.. can we chat tomorrow at school as you're in uniform" (and no more than that, if they were being particularly noisy which DD hasn't said they were being) if they feel they must but tbh I'd expect to have an email about it first as it's parent responsible time not school time.

Totally agree with PPs

I'd be fuming about this teacher going up to my DD late evening. I want to know!!

I remember a friend of mine was issued a detention. For smoking. Outside her own house. Because she was wearing her uniform

Her mum kicked up a right fuss, and the detention was cancelled

I'm interested to see what the teacher says. I'd just say hello and that's it. I probably wouldn't even notice the lack of tie
Is it a private school?

I think you're right to wait and see what happens op. Turning up at the school and trying to join in her meeting with the teacher would be inappropriate. Especially at secondary school

At my kids school they are not allowed to be seen in the shops in the area after school unless accompanied by an adult (yes its a secondary).

the rules are clear, I assumed it was because its a shit school and they have a history of trouble, my brother went to the same school and back in his day they would all meet up after school to go have punch up with kids from the other schools in the area, all identifying each other via uniforms.

so if the policy is due to that kind of tribalism ( they are instructed to go straight home) then I fully understand it and its in the best interests of the girls not to draw attention to themselves like that.

@VelvetChairGirl

At my kids school they are not allowed to be seen in the shops in the area after school unless accompanied by an adult (yes its a secondary).

the rules are clear, I assumed it was because its a shit school and they have a history of trouble, my brother went to the same school and back in his day they would all meet up after school to go have punch up with kids from the other schools in the area, all identifying each other via uniforms.

so if the policy is due to that kind of tribalism ( they are instructed to go straight home) then I fully understand it and its in the best interests of the girls not to draw attention to themselves like that.

Draw attention to themselves like what? Going to a swimming session?

That's so over the top.

Draw attention to themselves like what? Going to a swimming session?

yes, if it is an area where thy roam about looking for each other to beat up do you think they would care if they were outside a shop, bar or swimming pool?

the area my kids school is in has 3 secondary schools on the same road and another one round the corner so I am not surprised the boys roam around in groups looking to beat each other up, theres always rivalry between schools.

@VelvetChairGirl

Draw attention to themselves like what? Going to a swimming session?

yes, if it is an area where thy roam about looking for each other to beat up do you think they would care if they were outside a shop, bar or swimming pool?

the area my kids school is in has 3 secondary schools on the same road and another one round the corner so I am not surprised the boys roam around in groups looking to beat each other up, theres always rivalry between schools.

So boys behaving badly means girls can't exercise after school? And you see no issues with that?

We had this rule back in the dark ages when I went to school.

The very obvious solution after repeated bollockings for laughing whilst wearing uniform walking home, throwing things (a ball) whilst wearing uniform walking home, breathing... etc..

Strip off tie and blazer, shove in bag.. walk home in anonymous shirt and skirt - immediately roll up skirt to belt width, hoik black over-knee socks up to stocking height, untuck shirt so it hangs lower than skirt - walk home looking like hooker.

I am not sure that was the result school were after, but it is the one we pretty much all took from year 8 onwards.

So boys behaving badly means girls can't exercise after school? And you see no issues with that?

It is what it is, what do you think you can do about it?

Could they wear a coat or oversized hoodie?

@VelvetChairGirl

So boys behaving badly means girls can't exercise after school? And you see no issues with that?

It is what it is, what do you think you can do about it?

What can be done about it is really very simple: student behaviour outside of school hours is not the responsibility of the school. It is the responsibility of parents and where criminality happens, the responsibility of law enforcement. Deal with the guilty, leave innocent youngsters going out for exercise after school the hell alone.

@VelvetChairGirl

At my kids school they are not allowed to be seen in the shops in the area after school unless accompanied by an adult (yes its a secondary).

the rules are clear, I assumed it was because its a shit school and they have a history of trouble, my brother went to the same school and back in his day they would all meet up after school to go have punch up with kids from the other schools in the area, all identifying each other via uniforms.

so if the policy is due to that kind of tribalism ( they are instructed to go straight home) then I fully understand it and its in the best interests of the girls not to draw attention to themselves like that.

They weren’t in trouble for being outside the pool in uniform without an adult.

They were in trouble for having their tie loose, etc. hours after the end of school. Having their shirt tucked in and doing their tie up wouldn’t have drawn any less attention to themselves.

OP I hope your DD doesn’t get any sort of punishment.

If the rules do actually say the uniform must be worn “properly” even outside of school hours, in the future can she just not wear identifying bits (I.e. No tie, not wear blazer or logoed jumper, etc.) then claim to just be wearing a shirt and skirt/trousers?

When I was a teacher, if I’d have seen a kid I knew I’d have hidden 😂

I'm still at work but just read the text that DD has sent me, and I'm pretty fed up and confused by the teacher's/school's approach here.
DD says that she and friend went to see Mrs X during morning form time, and were told to go back at the end of break because she was busy. So they went back at the end of break, didn't start well because DD had been running around outside and her shirt had come untucked, so instant telling off.
Long story short, she told them both off for being in uniform out of school hours, uniform is for school time only, and they were bringing the school reputation into disrepute by wearing it out of school time and in an untidy manner. She has given them "100 lines" to do by tomorrow morning (never knew such a thing still existed), and told them if that if she sees them again like that then it will be a lunch time detention.
She then sent them off to their next lessons, for which they were 15 minutes late, and got into trouble for that then and had to stay behind into lunchtime.
I don't know what's going on here. I would usually have deemed the school reasonable in its approach to discipline, and my DD and her friend as pretty compliant girls with no history of trouble. Not sure if it's my fault in some way?

100 lines? Wtf

She needs to get a grip.

I would contact them and say that unless the teacher is planning to praise the girls for being involved in sporting activity then they should not be speaking to them about it at all. How ridiculous. Talk about missing the point...