To contact the school about this tomorrow

[cornbeeflegs]

My eldest DD (13) goes swimming with one of her friends on a Wednesday evening, has done since last August, at the local leisure centre. She goes straight from school to her friend's house, has dinner, does homework, etc and then they go to the pool for 8pm, spend an hour in the open swim session, then she gets dropped back here by one of friend's parents.
She came back very subdued this evening, thought maybe she'd had a fallout with friend or something, eventually she opened up and said she'd got into trouble with one of her teachers. Asked her which lesson it was in and what had happened, then she said it was at swimming.
Apparently DD and friend had been waiting for their lift home after swim session when one of their teachers had seen them, recognised them as being from her school because they were in uniform, and then proceeded to tell them off for not wearing it as per school rules, even though they weren't at school they were still "representing the school" by wearing it. She's asked them both to see her first thing tomorrow morning.
Usually I'm supportive of school and if my children transgress the rules then they face the consequences. But surely this is too harsh?

@aderyn21 and I stand by my view. 🤷‍♀️ No worries!

Hi converseandjeans,
Interesting thread. Particularly as so many people are adamant that they know whether it's okay for a school to insist on minimum standards of school uniform when worn outside school (for whatever reason).

The suggestion that uniform shouldn't be worn outside school hours is ridiculous ~ it obviously needs to be worn on journeys to and from school, which will vary per child and per before/after school activities. (Your daughter was, effectively, still on her way home from school.)
What I find absolutely ridiculous and totally unacceptable is that the teacher in question chose to take time out of school lessons for reprimanding (or discussing the situation with) the girls. I think it was rude of her to to be unavailable at the first agreed meeting, but then to remake the appointment at the end of break was ridiculous.

I agree with the poster who said you need to get someone else involved with this (eg the year head). They could perhaps find out whether there was something else involved that your daughter is either unaware of (or too frightened to confide). If not, I would personally like an apology to the girls, but wouldn't hold my breath. This is the kind of situation whereby kids who've applied themselves to everything asked of them by school will/might (reasonably) lose respect for authority, and it could affect the rest of their lives.
I absolutely agree you are right to handle this carefully and to tread lightly. But it doesn't sound as though the teacher in question has shown the same restraint.

(At past 9pm has anyone considered whether she might have been inebriated?)
Good Luck Converseandjeans

SO SORRY cornbeeflegs. Not sure HOW I made that mistake, but please forgive me.

yzed
It's not my thread and I agree with the OP that the teacher had no need to speak to the girls about uniform at the swimming pool.

What an absolute jobsworth

I've had a read of this document:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488034/Behaviour_and_Discipline_in_Schools_-_A_guide_for_headteachers_and_School_Staff.pdf

Something that jumped out at me in relation to this and how the teacher behaved is that in the section called "Pupils’ conduct outside the school gates – teachers’ powers" it mentions that the teacher may discipline pupils outside the school gates if there is (and this is key here) - misbehaviour when the pupil is wearing school uniform
Your daughter wasn't misbehaving, she was waiting patiently for her lift home at 9pm.

I'd say this teacher over reached here and needs having a word with.

I'd consider contacting the teacher directly, it always seems fairer to get their view before progressing it to the head teacher etc.
My children had a teacher who I regarded as being very unfair.An issue arose and I left her a message to phone me. We made progress, I outlined my concerns and we moved on from it. Bizarrely enough my daughter was reminded of the incident years later by another teacher so very few parents must contact parents directly.

Was the teacher dressed appropriately too,given that they were also representing the school?

I emailed the year head this morning before work. It's taken me a bit of time to work out what I wanted to say, because I wanted to sound supportive of the school as a whole in terms of their general approach to discipline and ethos, but at the the same time how I felt it was unreasonable that my DD (didn't mention friend because she's not my concern) had been disciplined on 2 occasions, both of which were inappropriate in terms of timing, and the first in terms of location and context.
I have said that I felt the teacher to be over zealous in her handling of the situation, and that I would be grateful if situation could be discussed with her to ensure that a repeat does not occur
I have made the point that my children have always worn their school uniforms after school for a variety of reasons, including personal choice, and that in doing so they make it more comfortable by loosening their ties, untucking their shirts, etc. , which in my opinion does not detract from the overall appearance of the uniform or bring the school's image into disrepute.

I do hope you get a response to your email @cornbeeflegs.
I noticed that you said you emailed the year head but did you contact the head or deputy head of the school as they should be aware of what has happened but perhaps that might be another email for another day if you're not happy with the response you get.

When your child wears school uniform, they represent the school. I wonder how bad was your child's 'crime' to warrant teacher's wrath?

@primarium

When your child wears school uniform, they represent the school. I wonder how bad was your child's 'crime' to warrant teacher's wrath?

Reading the full thread might answer your questions.

Hope you get a quick response @cornbeeflegs! Would be interested to hear what they say

I'll be honest, that sounds a bit woolly to me.

@LookItsMeAgain

I do hope you get a response to your email *@cornbeeflegs*. I noticed that you said you emailed the year head but did you contact the head or deputy head of the school as they should be aware of what has happened but perhaps that might be another email for another day if you're not happy with the response you get.

Nothing yet. I was in contact with the year head last week by phone and they advised me to email, so I thought it better to stay with the one person

If you're not getting any joy from the year head @cornbeeflegs, time to escalate the issue to get it resolved.

Absolutely ridiculous teacher, I’d be livid as a parent.

I've received a reply from the year head.
There is an apology, sort of, in that the matter has been discussed with Mrs X, the teacher involved, and she has agreed that she may have been a little heavy handed with the situation, given the location, timing, character of the girls, etc.
Apparently she is entrusted with raising standards of student behaviour, appearance, etc, both in and out of school, and although there is nothing enshrined in school policy regarding wearing of uniform outside school and how it should look, there was an assembly about it, and there is a general drive to encourage students to take pride in how it's worn, which includes out of school hours wear.
There was an apology for the nature of the sanction given, the excuse being that Mrs X was dealing with several incidents that day hence the delayed meeting with the girls at the end of break, and that the punishment was a last minute thought rather than anything.
If I want to discuss the matter further I am to email in response

Mrs X was dealing with several incidents that day hence the delayed meeting with the girls at the end of break

I wonder how many were of her own making

Sounds like Mrs X was making too much trouble for herself and couldn’t handle the fall out.

I wonder if they have any idea this is getting the full attention of MumsNet!?

I'd be emailing back to make it 100% clear that no member of staff is to approach your child outside of school with the intention of disciplining them, unless someone's safety is at risk! Anything they want to say that concerns your child puts of school hours is to go through you first.

Agree with @Aderyn21

I’d also want an apology for the harassment my DC had suffered outside of school from someone who should have known better. How dare she approach your DD to bully her outside of school? It’s just farcical!

I wouldn’t let this rest and I’d make sure the head, deputy and board of governors knew all about this nasty piece of work. She’s an affront to the profession.

The reply seems fair and appropriate and I'd leave it now

Tbh I think you’re being unreasonable. I think it’s perfectly fair for the school to expect uniform to be worn correctly outside school.

It reflects badly on the school if you have students walking about in public looking scruffy. The DCs’ school expect uniform to be worn smartly on any occasion- top buttons done up and blazers on.

Detention is fairly given to miscreants.

Yeh, I also think that's a fair response and if you follow up further now you're being unreasonable.