To contact the school about this tomorrow

[cornbeeflegs]

My eldest DD (13) goes swimming with one of her friends on a Wednesday evening, has done since last August, at the local leisure centre. She goes straight from school to her friend's house, has dinner, does homework, etc and then they go to the pool for 8pm, spend an hour in the open swim session, then she gets dropped back here by one of friend's parents.
She came back very subdued this evening, thought maybe she'd had a fallout with friend or something, eventually she opened up and said she'd got into trouble with one of her teachers. Asked her which lesson it was in and what had happened, then she said it was at swimming.
Apparently DD and friend had been waiting for their lift home after swim session when one of their teachers had seen them, recognised them as being from her school because they were in uniform, and then proceeded to tell them off for not wearing it as per school rules, even though they weren't at school they were still "representing the school" by wearing it. She's asked them both to see her first thing tomorrow morning.
Usually I'm supportive of school and if my children transgress the rules then they face the consequences. But surely this is too harsh?

YANBU. I'll never forget the time I was walking home from school in hot weather, sometime after 5pm as I'd stayed late for something, so alone and not with a crowd of other students, and a teacher driving home from work actually pulled up beside me in her car to ask why I wasn't wearing my blazer. She was in a short sleeved top because of the heat. It was ridiculous. I told my dad about it and he agreed. Some rules are very stupid or extremely petty and should be ignored.

@GreenWhiteViolet, the thing is that no-one, including OP, even knows if the rules apply in that situation yet!

The teacher would have a field day if she was to drive around the area and see just how many children play out after school still in their uniforms.
She sounds old school, hair scraped back in a bun, tweed skirt and jacket and sensible shoes. lol. I've now got to the age where there are more important things to worry about. Life is too short. But, I would
contact the school if it were my child.

@madisonbridges

I disagree with you, *@Sideswiped*, and I'm a teacher too. It's not about the op understanding the rules, it's about her daughter. She now should understand them and if she doesn't, she should go back to the deputy head and clarify it.

But there are no rules about wearing uniform outside of school.

How can the Dd understand rules that don’t exist.
It seems to me that the teacher is the one who doesn’t understand that there are no rules.

That’s absolutely ridiculous. I’m a teacher and I loathe uniforms and in particular punitive rules surrounding them. The girls were on their own time, I’m sure not a single person passing by gave a monkeys that their shirts were untucked!

Op phones the school and is told the only teacher matching that description is Miss McTweed . Only thing is Miss McTweed was a teacher in 1932 and hangs around the baths chastising untidy schoolgirls . Miss M Tweed's dashing swimming instructor fiance was tragically killed after falling over some discarded school blazers..

Can I just say don't be worried about being "that parent". Kids of that parent get a much easier ride than the kids of parents who don't make a fuss.

@Wallywobbles

Can I just say don't be worried about being "that parent". Kids of that parent get a much easier ride than the kids of parents who don't make a fuss.

IMO what "that parent" means is "that parent who cares enough about their kids to stick their neck out sometimes" so I agree, don't worry about that.

I would email and follow it up with a meeting (even if an MS teams meeting) but better to go in with DD there so she can hear & feel your support

There were suggested emails earlier so have adapted now you have information , it is worse than we thought as it was minor untucked short and loose tie at 9pm; Told off on the evening outside school;, Given lines; made to miss part of another lesson ; getting DD in trouble with other teacher due to that. , This is really an overstep by teacher and disproportionate.

Dear Head teacher

Re DD - class xyz - re Mrs X's behaviour outside school

My daughter goes straight to friend A's house on Tuesdays after school for tea then onto their joint swimming lesson, after which they quickly get changed back into their clothes at 9pm and they wait 5 mins in leisure centre foyer for the dad to fetch car to drive friend and DD home.

At this late hour nowhere near school nor anything to do with school, Mrs X a passing teacher approached my DD and friend in this venue and told them off, causing confusion to the girls.

Mrs X insisted on their attending a meeting at 9am following day. This caused both trouble as they missed 15 mins of a lesson with another teacher and Mrs X gave them 50lines to write whilst continuing to berate them. Her complaint was about a slightly untucked shirt and loose tie, as they'd gotten dressed quickly just to go home after swimming lesson whilst still damp. I cannot see this was necessary nor was there any sense of proportion to her actions.

I am concerned about this teachers behaviour outside school hours and at a different venue, towards children who are not in her care at that time, who found her approach intimidating.

If they had been witnessed behaving extremely badly or anti socially at the time, then I would understand a teacher contacting me (as a parent) the next day to discuss and ask we spoke together to the girls. Neither DD nor friend were however behaving in any way other than respectfully as they waited briefly in a safe space at the leisure centre for a lift home at 9pm.

I do not give consent for Mrs X to approach my DD again outside school at a different venue late in the evening in this manner, nor to then later impose inappropriate punishments at school.

Please look into this incident. I would appreciate reassurance that it will not happen again.

Regards
Mum"

Oh it was 100 lines AND threat of lunchtime detention next time?

You probably need to use the word uniform and in the meeting discuss that many children attend sports activities after school in uniform as they cannot carry around change of winter clothes to school as well as sports kits school kits and lunches. That school ought be encouraging participation in sports activities and be pleased that DD and A are such good pupils.

I certainly wouldn't be turning myself inside out to find ways not to infringe a rule (if it even exists) that the school have no right to make!
Children (and their uniforms) do not belong to school! You shouldn't seek ways to accommodate other peoples unreasonable behaviour instead of putting a stop to the unreasonable behaviour.

To be honest if it was a private school, I think this is kind of to be expected. They’re much more old fashioned and strict about uniform but if it’s a state school then I’m surprised the teacher has the energy for the pettiness.

@Quackpot

If a teacher had approached me at that age at nine o clock at night, and commented on my clothing, I'd have retorted with "fuck off yer nonce" or something similar, and absolutely refused to go to the meeting and denied it ever happened. But then I was a bit of a twat.

I would have done exactly the same 😂😂 "fuck of ya nonce" was my go too phrase for teachers for a couple of years 🙈

@TolkiensFallow

To be honest if it was a private school, I think this is kind of to be expected. They’re much more old fashioned and strict about uniform but if it’s a state school then I’m surprised the teacher has the energy for the pettiness.

I went to a grammar school and this was absolutely what happened. So much so we Shrugged it off each time.

Uniform policy was a big deal - still is at that school. They changed the skirts so they couldn’t be rolled up.

To be honest it didn’t do me any harm and I really don’t see the outrage.

The lines are a bit odd, that never happened.

@catmothertes1

Anyone else find it strange that those girls have come out of school,did their h/w,had their tea,went swimming and they are still wearing their school uniform?

Not at all. As mentioned, my Ds was still in his BLAZER at 9pm (our house is cold).

@Sparticuscaticus

I would email and follow it up with a meeting (even if an MS teams meeting) but better to go in with DD there so she can hear & feel your support

There were suggested emails earlier so have adapted now you have information , it is worse than we thought as it was minor untucked short and loose tie at 9pm; Told off on the evening outside school;, Given lines; made to miss part of another lesson ; getting DD in trouble with other teacher due to that. , This is really an overstep by teacher and disproportionate.

Dear Head teacher

Re DD - class xyz - re Mrs X's behaviour outside school

My daughter goes straight to friend A's house on Tuesdays after school for tea then onto their joint swimming lesson, after which they quickly get changed back into their clothes at 9pm and they wait 5 mins in leisure centre foyer for the dad to fetch car to drive friend and DD home.

At this late hour nowhere near school nor anything to do with school, Mrs X a passing teacher approached my DD and friend in this venue and told them off, causing confusion to the girls.

Mrs X insisted on their attending a meeting at 9am following day. This caused both trouble as they missed 15 mins of a lesson with another teacher and Mrs X gave them 50lines to write whilst continuing to berate them. Her complaint was about a slightly untucked shirt and loose tie, as they'd gotten dressed quickly just to go home after swimming lesson whilst still damp. I cannot see this was necessary nor was there any sense of proportion to her actions.

I am concerned about this teachers behaviour outside school hours and at a different venue, towards children who are not in her care at that time, who found her approach intimidating.

If they had been witnessed behaving extremely badly or anti socially at the time, then I would understand a teacher contacting me (as a parent) the next day to discuss and ask we spoke together to the girls. Neither DD nor friend were however behaving in any way other than respectfully as they waited briefly in a safe space at the leisure centre for a lift home at 9pm.

I do not give consent for Mrs X to approach my DD again outside school at a different venue late in the evening in this manner, nor to then later impose inappropriate punishments at school.

Please look into this incident. I would appreciate reassurance that it will not happen again.

Regards
Mum"

I would take out the loaded language though...

eg. Mrs X asked them to attend a meeting...(not insisted).
Don't use 'berate' just told them off and gave them 100 lines.

Remove 'at this late hour' (no relevance if it is 5pm or 9pm - the issue is the same).

Include request for policy as a PP explained.

The more factual and less emotional it is, the better, otherwise you come across as slightly inhinged and gets the HT's back up.

I totally understand the teacher approaching them if they were swearing or smoking/drinking while wearing their uniform. They do, after all, represent the school while wearing it.
I don't think she had any right to moan at 8pm that their ties weren't straight. Tbh I'd definitely phone and have a conversation but if there was some planned punishment ie detention I'd refuse consent but also make sure DD had a change of clothes for next time.

Wearing school uniform is representing the school. I think you might be right to complain if you saw police or a nurse out on the town in uniform. Much easier to just not wear it at all out of school hours.

The school might take a view that the uniform is representative of them, but in reality the uniform is owned by the parents who paid for it, not the school, so they don't get to dictate when or how it is worn outside of school hours.
If the school aren't happy about this, maybe they should consider moving away from compulsory uniform?

Who are the school worried about “representing themselves to”. Surely the parents and kids are the customers and the way this girl has been treated just for going for a swim is not good. Yes, potential students are also the customers but it sounds like these girls were not damaging the school’s image.

I've talked to my DD about this again today while I've had time to think about it properly. She's adamant that they weren't doing anything improper to warrant the telling off. She says the teacher concerned is known for being strict in school over all sorts of things. She wasn't in the swimming session they went to, she was probably in the gym which is part of the same centre.

I'm going to write an email to the year head tomorrow, outlining my concerns and asking for some reassurances that there isn't some sort of bullying going on.

I appreciate what people say about not wearing logo's, etc to identify the uniform. Tbh, because we live in a rural location there is really only one school which all the children go to, so in uniform or not they would still be presumed to be going to that school.

@Ohmycron

this whole this is bullshit

IMHO

Thanks

Teacher here too & think they're being ridiculous. It's good DD wants to swim & totally understand why she can't carry more kit.

I think the only occasion when it's necessary is if there's an incident like a fight or swearing at a member of public when wearing school uniform.

Dear OP they will of course reassure you that there is no bullying going on (even if they think it was out of order they would never say oh yes it's bullying) I would instead say that your daughter felt that there was an element of bullying behaviour - they can't deny her feelings. I know as a teacher that you have to be careful how your words may be received. If that happened where I work that teacher would be reported under KCSIE low level of concern! And I don't say that lightly!