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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To contact the school about this tomorrow

405 replies

cornbeeflegs · 19/01/2022 22:02

My eldest DD (13) goes swimming with one of her friends on a Wednesday evening, has done since last August, at the local leisure centre. She goes straight from school to her friend's house, has dinner, does homework, etc and then they go to the pool for 8pm, spend an hour in the open swim session, then she gets dropped back here by one of friend's parents.
She came back very subdued this evening, thought maybe she'd had a fallout with friend or something, eventually she opened up and said she'd got into trouble with one of her teachers. Asked her which lesson it was in and what had happened, then she said it was at swimming.
Apparently DD and friend had been waiting for their lift home after swim session when one of their teachers had seen them, recognised them as being from her school because they were in uniform, and then proceeded to tell them off for not wearing it as per school rules, even though they weren't at school they were still "representing the school" by wearing it. She's asked them both to see her first thing tomorrow morning.
Usually I'm supportive of school and if my children transgress the rules then they face the consequences. But surely this is too harsh?

OP posts:
Kabakofte · 22/01/2022 17:47

Sorry me again! I would write directly to the Head.

LookItsMeAgain · 22/01/2022 19:23

I would use the wording that Sparticuscaticus has suggested including the terms that MerryMarigold thinks shouldn't be there.

The timing is important as it would have been very clear that the girls were finished their swimming club rather than arriving to it.
Using the word insisted is good because where this particular teacher is concerned, you wouldn't not show up and not showing up for that meeting was not an option. If you use the words "asked them" to attend the meeting, it leaves the meeting as an option which it clearly wasn't.

I think you need to show that if ANY of the teachers in this school have an issue with how your daughter or anyone else's daughter wears the uniform outside of school that they approach the PARENTS of said pupil about it and not the pupil themselves.

As I said in my earlier post - who the fuck gives lines as a punishment anymore??? It's archaic and doesn't teach them anything. Does this particular teacher think they are Dolores Umbridge????

Ikeptgoing · 22/01/2022 19:28

I would use sparticus 's email and read the below of it needs improving.

It needs addressing as this is a bullying teacher who overstepped. I would be so angry if she had approached my DD in his manner and my DD would not be writing any lines. (Nor attending any detention). But the teacher would be reminded to stay away from my DD outside school

Ikeptgoing · 22/01/2022 19:31

I think it's is relevant that it was a late hour at 9pm when DD was finished her swimming lesson and briefly waiting for a lift. 5pm is different and not far off school end time. Approaching children at 9pm at an entirely different place nowhere near school is very different.

Ikeptgoing · 22/01/2022 19:37

Your DD does know that she can just ignore a teacher at that time? And walk away... i would have done.
I think you should remind your DD about that !

LuaDipa · 22/01/2022 19:40

In most circumstances I wholeheartedly support schools enforcing uniform policy, but this is ridiculous.

I would go in and discuss further because I can’t understand why the teacher would think it acceptable to approach a student about uniform several hours after the school day had concluded (unless the students were actually representing the school officially of course).

Ikeptgoing · 22/01/2022 19:45

@Ikeptgoing

Your DD does know that she can just ignore a teacher at that time? And walk away... i would have done. I think you should remind your DD about that !
Then if she pursues, it becomes " there was this adult following and shouting at children in leisure centre at 9pm.." ..! The children do not have to stand there and listen to her in the slightest!! It isn't school , it is not a school arranged activity and they do not have to listen to any teacher that randomly approaches them!!
Tiani3 · 22/01/2022 19:53

I agree

Please tell your DD next time to walk away with friend and go back into changing room. If teacher follows them ask an adult worker to tell her to leave them alone as she isn't their parent.

It's unwelcome contact

No teacher adult has a right to go up and tell her off at that time. DD is far too polite. It isn't impolite to walk away from an adult you don't want contact with and you are not in the care of at that time.

So she wouldn't have heard what that bully teacher said
Not feel obliged to attend any meeting the next day!

Nor should she have to listen to her again. Let that teacher try to explain later on why she wants any meeting when DD and her friend have no idea what she is talking about!
"I chased two pupils at 9pm at night & leisure centre staff asked me to leave them alone, bc I didn't like that their shirts were slightly untucked.."
will NOT go down well GrinHmm

Tiani3 · 22/01/2022 19:57

The two girls could have simply walked away. Don't listen. Walk away and go back somewhere away from her safely.

I can't imagine teacher as an adult without any care of them, would have had the nerve to follow them . Unless she wanted to have it reported to leisure centre staff!!

So please tell your girls to do this next time!

ChickenGotLegs · 22/01/2022 19:59

@Tiani3

The two girls could have simply walked away. Don't listen. Walk away and go back somewhere away from her safely.

I can't imagine teacher as an adult without any care of them, would have had the nerve to follow them . Unless she wanted to have it reported to leisure centre staff!!

So please tell your girls to do this next time!

Lol your joking right?
Tiani3 · 22/01/2022 20:04

No actually I'm not chickenlegs
Why would the children have to listen to an adult approaching them in a cross way that they don't want contact with at that time who isn't anything to do with the reason they are there?

She wasn't welcome nor had any care of them. They weren't doing anything wrong.

The children had every right to walk away and I would suggest in this situation they do in future. It would save an inappropriate contact

You may think it is appropriate. I don't think it was appropriate in the slightest.

Tiani3 · 22/01/2022 20:07

I think we have to stop telling our girls to be polite and letting anyone approach them in any kind of angry way. I'd say the same if it was an inappropriate male approaching them .

It was unnecessary approach by an adult and I would hope my children - who are lovely and polite - would simply walk away and find a safe space to wait even if it was back in the changing rooms

surreygirl1987 · 22/01/2022 21:09

Still waiting to hear what the school policy is on this... has OP checked? Is there a policy on this at their school or not? That makes all the difference regarding where the OP's complaint is directed...

NumberTheory · 22/01/2022 21:16

@surreygirl1987

Still waiting to hear what the school policy is on this... has OP checked? Is there a policy on this at their school or not? That makes all the difference regarding where the OP's complaint is directed...
From the OP’s posts: “Having looked at the school website, there is no specific guidance regarding uniform rules outside school hours.“
Dangermouse5 · 22/01/2022 21:52

It really doesn't matter what the school policies are. What matters is what the leisure centre policies are -and nowhere will there be a policy that adults who don't have care of these minor children - can go up an harass them.

I'm with Tiani tell the girls to walk away and hide. And ask an adult worker if they have to as If an adult regardless or whether she may be a teacher nor not but doesn't have care of them, follows them - that adult will get into trouble and reporters as inappropriate behaviour.
The girls do not have to "meet with teacher" the next day a as they wouldn't he heard her and b , they have just report that an adult who said she worked at this school was following and intimidating them. Let her volunteer that she is the reported incident at the leisure centre. !!

Dangermouse5 · 22/01/2022 21:57

I don't believe a teacher would be that angry she will follow the girls or they walk away they do not have to listen to this teacher
Not outside school

Then it's a 'Miss don't know what you are talking about' the next day

And if Miss does try to follow them at the leisure centre , Miss will get untroubled as leisure Center rules will supervise any rules teacher thinks she has
Ie no adults hassling minor children
They can and absolutely should walk away

Dangermouse5 · 22/01/2022 21:59

Sorry auto incorrect
In trouble not untroubled
Supercede not supervise

elkiedee · 22/01/2022 22:52

@Tiani3 and @Dangermouseshe 5

I have some sympathy with what you're saying about the right of this teacher to harass them and call them in the next day. The problem is that this has become a situation where that teacher is enforcing her views on OPs daughter and DD's friend, in way which I think goes against the educational purposes of school. It's too late to ignore her, and possibly questionable whether this would have worked, however appealing that approach is.

If this happened with my DCs, I would be taking this complaint to the Head/senior leadership team and/or governing body, having looked at the website or contacted the school for clarification on uniform policy and disciplinary procedures and complaints processes - this is so as to make the complaint difficult to brush off and also in case I needed to take it further if I didn't get a sensible response from school management/governors.

LouBan · 22/01/2022 23:24

My school was super strict about how we wore our uniform, even out of school. We even had a Panama hat that had to be worn at all times we were not on the school property but still in our uniform.
However, having worked in schools myself I think the teacher could have let them off with a warning.

surreygirl1987 · 22/01/2022 23:37

"It really doesn't matter what the school policies are". I knew someone would say that! It does matter - because it is the difference between raising a complaint about the teacher's conduct, and raising s complaint about school policy.

As it has been confirmed that the teacher was acting outside school policy, the complaint should be about the teacher (and the fact that she is not acting in accordance to school policy!).

HarrietPierce · 22/01/2022 23:43

LouBan
"However, having worked in schools myself I think the teacher could have let them off with a warning."

I think it's the teacher who should have had the warning.

Kabakofte · 23/01/2022 08:48

It aims like OPs DD is not the kind of kid who would walk away from a teacher, there are plenty who would and probably give a mouthful as they did so, but I can guarantee that the teacher wouldn't have approached them! It's very hard for any youngster who will normally abide by school rules to stand up to a teacher who they already know to be strict, let's face it even when they did go the next day they got into even more trouble. It's fair to let them know this is an option for the future but let's hope the teacher and others (because this message should go to all staff) would not do the same in the future as it was wholly disproportionate and inappropriate. I honestly think she layered more on the next day (sorry not being tucked in) to deflect her actions of the previous night and somehow justify that they don't conform. She just needs to own the fact that she completely misjudged the situation and that moving forward she will not repeat that behaviour - that's what we teach our kids!!!

Kabakofte · 23/01/2022 08:49

Typos - aims should be seems
Sorry should be shirt

Aderyn21 · 23/01/2022 09:08

@surreygirl1987

"It really doesn't matter what the school policies are". I knew someone would say that! It does matter - because it is the difference between raising a complaint about the teacher's conduct, and raising s complaint about school policy.

As it has been confirmed that the teacher was acting outside school policy, the complaint should be about the teacher (and the fact that she is not acting in accordance to school policy!).

I stand by the view that the school policy doesn't matter because once the school day is over and children leave the premises, the teacher/school has no jurisdiction over what they do no matter what they are wearing at the time.

If it was a school policy then that needs addressing in addition to the bullying behaviour of this particular teacher. The school isn't a higher authority than the parent, certainly not outside of school hours. But it seems some schools think they are, hence ridiculous rules that they have no right to try to enforce and parents have to challenge this overstepping.

If it's not a school rule then obviously the OP doesn't need to challenge policy as well as the teacher's conduct, but if it is, then both need to be addressed.

MrsMariaReynolds · 23/01/2022 10:43

@TolkiensFallow

To be honest if it was a private school, I think this is kind of to be expected. They’re much more old fashioned and strict about uniform but if it’s a state school then I’m surprised the teacher has the energy for the pettiness.
Have to say I agree. I see time and time again parents aghast at the expectations of their private school, whether it be of behaviour, or uniform, or the amount of homework given, etc. You're PAYING for that level of "attention." There are other options...