AIBU to think £175 is an excessive amount to pay for breakfast for 2?

[WafflesnBlueberries]

Or AIBU to think child maintenance system needs reform for shared care arrangements?

If there is exactly 50-50 shared care no party pays, but as soon there's a day a year different the non-resident party has to pay four-sevenths of what they'd pay if they never saw the kids.

My ex is suggesting I should have our 2 children for 5 nights + 2 evenings a fortnight, in term time (equal holidays)
If we did this then I'd have them 39 nights a year less than equal so would be liable to pay maintenance with a two-sevenths reduction.
Plugging this into the calculator I'm told I should pay:
£132.50 a week
or £574 a month
or £6,886 a year
which seems a smidge excessive for 39 breakfasts for 2 children, one of whom doesn't do breakfast. (£175 per breakfast)

The proposal from Cafcass was I should have them 6 nights a fortnight instead of ex's suggestion of 5 nights + 2 teatimes. That would mean the children would have 19-20 nights a year fewer with me and would increase my maintenance reduction to three-seveths. I'd then only have to pay
£106 a week
or £459 a month
or £5507 a year
which still seems a trifle much for 20 nights for 2. That's £275 a night and while they do both eat a terrifying amount for dinner it still seems…

To be fair if they're with my ex on a school morning they are sent in with packed lunches or my ex pays for school lunch, but I'm still not convinced the cost is justified.

Can anyone point me at the law where they devised these calculations? So I can trawl Hansard and see how it was discussed and how the government decided this was reasonable.

I've tried saying no to my non-gendered ex

It sounds to me like she was the one that said no.

So you buy your children's clothes, shoes, pay school trips,and all there other expenses do you?

My ex has dc for tea 4 nights a week and pays maintenance because he realises dc needs more than food.

The ex earns substantially more (25k pa more?).

Presumably she initiated the split, then wanted to move the DC away from their home area which, I assume, necessitated the expensive court battle.

OP was forced to move to stay close to the DC, pushing their costs up dramatically. The exW is playing silly buggers again, this time with contact times, which is going to degrade the quality of life OP can offer when the DC are at his/hers (now less often, and with less household cash).

ExW had relied a lot on paid childcare which, I assume, is time that OP could have had with the DC. Instead she/he is being strong-armed into spending LESS time with the DC AND being obliged to fork out money they haven’t got to spare for the privilege.

Yep, I’d be pretty pissed off too.

If its the law, honestly just pay it or stay 50/50.
Sounds like a pretty hostile atmosphere though. Maintenance isnt forever and its so so beneficial for a child to feel like neither parent begrudged paying for them

If you went to court years ago, how old are the children now?

You have the children less, a court decided you had them less, if CAFCASS involved then they listened to the children wishes.

You say you have a large mortgage but your ex must be in similar position as assets are split 50/50...perhaps you chose to take more of the pension?

For your own benefit focus on what you have in your life rather than feeling victimised. It will stop you moving on with your life. Many , many resident parents do not get enough maintenance to feed or house children so it's not a fair process but the alternative to a "nights" basis is detailed analysis of costs which they tried before and didn't work.

If you are a high earner, paying into your pension and own an expensive house then you are doing ok. You can move when the children go to Uni.

@screwthem

I'm really disappointed. I thought this would be a thread about an amazing breakfast somewhere, golden eggs or something.

But it's just another dickhead who doesn't want to support his kids financially.

I assumed it was about a posh breakfast too - maybe with some truffles and gold leaves

@PaterPower, the Op said 9 years ago and that CAFCASS said 6 nights when Ex offered 5 nights plus 2 tea times. It sounds like he took HER to court for 1 night.

The children must be at an age where they can make a decision so Op shouldn't be forcing contact at all or thinking of court.

People like you are the reason some women stay in relationships that they 100% shouldn't be in, because they are fearful for the life they and their children will have once the relationship is over. Pay the money, be a parent and stop quibbling over your children who you "love"

It’s your contribution to their daily living costs. Not just a bowl of cheerios each morning they wake at your house

Bait

Do you think is the resident parent cant be earning that much if they getting child benefit so let’s get some perspective here.

My husband earns a lot less _( earn 10x) so he got about 59% of our assets on the divorce as I bought out his maintenance for life claims ( he works full time as do I). On maintenance he choose never to have the children to stay - I would have been happy with 50/50! He has also paid just about nothing and certainly no maintenance or help with childcare costs. In a sense I was lucky so did not have to get into these who pays what things - I just had to pay 100% of everything always and have them 365 nights a year. There are 5 of them.

Someone asked how CMS amounts are worked out - decided in the law. They are a very blunt instrument. One of the biggest issues is most couples cannot afford two family homes to rent or to buy and cannot live with their parents so that makes everything very hard. If you have children half the week then you may well need more than a studio flat and instead need to rent a 3 bed flat or buy a 3 bed house not a 1 bed flat. So sums paid are not really just about cost of breakfast but all the other things that go into having children.

In fact for couples on higher incomes as I am most solicitors will ensure the agreed financial "consent order" deals with issues like school fees (eg ours says that I had to pay the 5 sets of those no matter with whom the children lived and even says I pay all university costs for the 5, not their lower earner father - this year alone that is costing me £50k by the way - the last year the twins are students).

My ex abandoned us when DS was 3 and never saw DS and he went abroad toilet so he didn't have to pay CMA.
Roll on to when my DS graduated from university up he rolls wanting a relationship with DS who promptly told him to fuck off.
Concentrate on your relationship with your kids rather than the money or you'll have no kids.
DS is 40 now and still doesn't talk to his father.

@Fere

Are you unhappy about paying maintenance for your kids? They will remember that when they grow up, and would love you for it. Guaranteed!

You are so right. My husband who is in his fifties still remembers one of his parents being awkward and petty over child maintenance when he was a little boy.

OP this all sounds extremely petty. Maintenance is so much more than meals. You must know this.

@Quincythequince

And if this is indicative of your general approach to child-tearing/shared responsibility, I can see why you are an ‘ex’

I've no idea whether you're the mum or the dad but good God.

The amount is not just the price of a slice of toast, it's probably a realistic look at the cost of being responsible for a child. Factoring in things like heating Petrol loss of earnings

It's not just breakfast, as you well know if children are with you half the time. It's the cost of running baths, heating bedrooms, giving them a tenner because it's world book day or their friend's birthday etc etc. You know this. or should.

Turn the question round - do I think my children's comfort and security is worth £175?

@falalalalalalablahblah

People like you are the reason some women stay in relationships that they 100% shouldn't be in, because they are fearful for the life they and their children will have once the relationship is over. Pay the money, be a parent and stop quibbling over your children who you "love"

This is so true.

My x views the children as pay per view films and he doesn't pay anything if he doesn't see any benefit to him.

If he has any spare money, it's going to be spent on himself. He's a wealthy guy. They have formed their own opinions of him, based on HIS choices but he thinks they are empty vessels who've been brain washed by me.

I think he should have had therapy. I did after leaving him.

@CheeseMmmm

OP not been back, shame.

Hope back tomorrow.

Never says what ex shift pattern was, or how ex manages that currently.... But read OP posts again and is mentioned:

OP:
'I'm also unhappy I don't get as much time with my children as I'd like, and that my ex has used so much childcare (Lockdown was good from that point of view as I saw more of them).'

OP works shift pattern. Uses childcare to cover. I know from experience that out of usual hours it is vv hard to find, and costs eyewatering.

OP is unhappy that ex uses childcare so much? What the fuck else they supposed to do???!!

Jesus, OP posted at 10 past midnight & you posted this at 5:37 saying the op hasn't been back!! They're allowed to sleep.

@Quincythequince sorry for quoting you there, I clicked quote on your post because I agreed with it! but then addressed the op. Apologies for confusion.

@CheeseMmmm

Think OP legged it. If not. Shift patterns please OP for ex. Why unhappy ex using apparently too much childcare (to cover work).

Meanwhile. You happy lockdown saw loads more kids.
Therefore meaning your job interfered with having so much time before?
And ex presumably said can you have kids extra next week because work you said fine? So... You do communicate, help ex out...?

And generally you can't see them so much because of work...
Who looks after them when you not there then? Given you have 50/50 arrangement?

I mean.

None of this adds up at all.

Didn't from the start.

Dunno if allowed to say.

Bitter man, fixated on how been done wrong. Focused on money. Wallowing in self pity. Angry that ex has better job and I'll bet is happier without OP.

Appalling unfairness means anger at women in general for being advantaged over men everywhere.

Led to. I'll make s thread on MN. Those women always think women fab men horrible. I'll cleverly disguise the sexes. Let's see how anti men they all are...

OP posts first comment. Ha! They're bamboozled!

9/10 who read OP first post.

That's obviously a bloke.

Nice one OP! You proved... Something!

Bloody hell... go for a run or something & dump your assumptions & nasty attitude!!

I too thought we would be talking about a delicious breakfast ! Possibly truffles ,big golden eggs ,harp playing! No just another ex. Breakfast is normally toast or cereal/eggs here .New shoes,coats ,uniform completely different .Please go back and do sums!

I your posts you not once discussed what us in the best interests of the children its all about the money.

My ex is suggesting I should have our 2 children for 5 nights + 2 evenings a fortnight, in term time (equal holidays)

Either your maths or your syntax is wrong.

It sounds like you have them 2.5 days a week during term time (39 weeks of the year) = 97.5 overnight stays.

Your ex has them 4.5 days a week for 39 weeks = 175.5 overnight stays.

Add in non-term time and you have them for 145 overnights, she has them for 221 overnights.

Anyway, you sound like a right dose and I think I can see why your ex packed up and moved away.

You seem really angry. You're an intelligent bloke but you seem to have lost your way a bit here. You're focusing on the wrong thing, and a lot of people are reacting very strongly because of that.
You honestly might find a counsellor very helpful to let go of some of this stuff that's eating you up inside.
Your divorce was obviously traumatic. You had a nasty court case and fighting. It didn't go the way you wanted and you resent that money.
You need to focus on the good stuff.
Let's start with the kids. Are they happy and thriving? Do you have a decent home for them? Do you have things for them to play with? It might not be the latest console etc. Kids remember time spent and parents who care for them. They might get distracted by gadgets and trips but if you take a longer term, whole life view that's what's important.
You're looking at the number of nights from a financial perspective. You really need to focus on what's best for the kids. Is it working for them? Are they happy? Do they enjoy afterschool club? Don't upset their world for financial reasons.

Your equating cm for breakfast is just infuriating. You know that it's to cover a share of the whole spectrum of costs involved eg heating, water, c tax, mortgage, car costs as well as clothes, food.

That said, once paid I'd question why you pay for school trips etc. Different when it's 50/50 but if you've paid maintenance then you are fulfilling your responsibility. You are only required to pay for things (eg uniform) when the children are with you.

Child benefit? Both of you must be over the threshold of earnings as you talk about yourself being well paid (must be c£50k based on your figures) and her being 25k more. (She might be receiving it but she will have to be paying it back each year. (or not receiving the money at all) So this is something you can let go.

You seem so hung up on what's fair and fine points. Wanting to research their law etc is throwing your energy in the wrong direction. Your sense of injustice and the constant comparison and obsession with micro points is stopping you enjoying life.

In the nicest way, can I ask if you might be autistic? (I am BTW). It might be worth checking this out. You might find it helps you to understand why people recoil from your facts based approach which isn't taking emotions and softer things (eg child's mental well being) into account.

I do think this seems unfair - you want 50/50 but ex doesn't because they will see the children less....so they win and you see the children less?! And on top of that you have to give then money.

Doesn't seem very fair when you wanted 50/50.