AIBU to think £175 is an excessive amount to pay for breakfast for 2?

[WafflesnBlueberries]

Or AIBU to think child maintenance system needs reform for shared care arrangements?

If there is exactly 50-50 shared care no party pays, but as soon there's a day a year different the non-resident party has to pay four-sevenths of what they'd pay if they never saw the kids.

My ex is suggesting I should have our 2 children for 5 nights + 2 evenings a fortnight, in term time (equal holidays)
If we did this then I'd have them 39 nights a year less than equal so would be liable to pay maintenance with a two-sevenths reduction.
Plugging this into the calculator I'm told I should pay:
£132.50 a week
or £574 a month
or £6,886 a year
which seems a smidge excessive for 39 breakfasts for 2 children, one of whom doesn't do breakfast. (£175 per breakfast)

The proposal from Cafcass was I should have them 6 nights a fortnight instead of ex's suggestion of 5 nights + 2 teatimes. That would mean the children would have 19-20 nights a year fewer with me and would increase my maintenance reduction to three-seveths. I'd then only have to pay
£106 a week
or £459 a month
or £5507 a year
which still seems a trifle much for 20 nights for 2. That's £275 a night and while they do both eat a terrifying amount for dinner it still seems…

To be fair if they're with my ex on a school morning they are sent in with packed lunches or my ex pays for school lunch, but I'm still not convinced the cost is justified.

Can anyone point me at the law where they devised these calculations? So I can trawl Hansard and see how it was discussed and how the government decided this was reasonable.

[Littlegreenfrogcake]

You come across as anally retentive and hard work. Your children are not investments you can calculate value on.

Are you unhappy at how this money is being spent? Do your children want for anything?

You must be a high earner to be paying this much if calculated by CMS. is it causing a detriment to your day to day living?

[CheeseMmmm]

What shifts does your ex work? What age DC?

Shift work is v incompatible with school/childcare usual hours. How does ex manage that?

DH doesn't even do nights but still if I wasn't here leaving 430 am earlies, home 1030 lates works every other weekend... just as example totally incompatible with standard hours for children things.

[cherryonthecakes]

Your ex is right about shift work making a contact schedule difficult but if you can be flexible then hopefully you can work something out ?

[LadyPropane]

It's not just paying for their breakfast. It's them living in that home for an extra day a week. That's why you would be required to pay more maintenance.

Sorry if I missed this in your PPs, but why can't you do 50/50? Is your ex fighting against this?

I'm sorry you're going through this. It gets ugly when things become this petty, but it's sadly very common after divorce. I hope you are getting the time you want with your children, even if the finances aren't ideal.

[WafflesnBlueberries]

@Quincythequince

So say no to her! Have them 50/50 no extra money needed.
Your OP implies she’s asking you to change it so she gets them more, not that that’s how is is now.
Just say no!

I've tried saying no to my non-gendered ex. When we separated I said I wanted equal time. Between us we must have spent at least £30k in court, the judge was glowing with meaningless praise for me but I lost.

9 years later and yes I can go back to court and spend another £10k of my money (ok I'd have to borrow it) and £10k of hers, but if Cafcass have spoken should I really fight?

Another poster suggested I "must earn a decent amount", yes I am paid very well, (earn is subjective - I don't work any where near as hard as eg careers, teachers or nurses - I'm just lucky), but still saying "Saying no" is insanely expensive it's risky, lawyers and courts now make me feel physically sick, and most importantly the stress would trickle through to the kids and that's not on.

[NYnewstart]

It’s such a small difference in time. I’d definitely be looking to make it 7 nights a fortnight.

[NYnewstart]

And yes if you can be flexible about which 7 nights then you can accommodate her shift patterns in your 7 nights a fortnight.

[Sort0f]

Do you think it would benefit your children if they heard you discussing this?

If the answer is no, you are on the wrong track.

[Quincythequince]

Do you currently have them 50/50 and are you currently paying, or have previously paid any maintenance?

You are not clear!

And if it’s stressful etc, tell your ex to just leave it, and try to sort their shifts out!

Their work and hours etc, is not your problem if it means you will see your children less than you want AND have to pay for the privilege.

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

I can hear how frustrated you are but I'm not sure it's helpful to reduce this to breakfast when that's really not what the money is all about. Pretending that it is may be stopping g you thinking more rationally. You say your ex pays for music lessons. With instrument repairs, exam fees, lessons and club memberships it would be possible for this to be costing 2k per child. It may not be of course, but you need to be really clear about what the maintenance is covering. The extra school dinners your ex pays for are easily £16 a week so over £600 a year. I wasn't clear from your post whether you 50 50 on all clothing. If you took the emotion out of it, what is your ex really paying for which you are not?

[CheeseMmmm]

I suppose I'm saying the shifts complicate things. How does it work now? Is that the reason they've asked for to to have more so as to fit round work?

I mean rather than just because feels like it.

Not your problem obviously!

Whether you both male, female or one of each sex. It doesn't make any odds obv but I wonder why you've obviously decided to write post in way that doesn't say. That's pretty unusual, that's why I noticed.

[Quincythequince]

So you don’t have equal time, and are currently paying more, and have been for 9 years?

But now the ‘more’ will be greater?!

Just…say…no!

[Thelnebriati]

If you can be flexible to accomodate her shifts, just do it with good grace. Its better for your children if you can bring yourself to co-operate with your ex, rather than seethe with resentment and pretend maintenance is the cost of a breakfast.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

Wouldn't it hurt you if your ex effectively had £1000 per month greater spending power for the children, than you - even before their larger salary was counted?

Maintenance is about trying to give the children as close to the standard of living they would have had if their parents had not split up. Two higher earners means their lifestyle would have been pretty decent pre-split, your partner having more disposable income is irrelevant, the money isn’t for your ex, it’s to fund your children. Your support for your children would be the same if your ex earned £100000 or £10000, because it’s to pay for your children.

[Quincythequince]

Why should OP have to pay more AND see their children less, to suit their ex?

Why?

[CheeseMmmm]

I'm really confused.

Admittedly don't know much about divorce etc.

How if you are 50/50 looking after the children,
And ex earns more than you,

Are you paying ex maintenance?

You say ex claims won't see kids much if week on week off...
Claims?
You think that's not why wants to do it?

Why then? What do you think motivation is?

[WafflesnBlueberries]

@Littlegreenfrogcake

You come across as anally retentive and hard work. Your children are not investments you can calculate value on.

Are you unhappy at how this money is being spent? Do your children want for anything?

You must be a high earner to be paying this much if calculated by CMS. is it causing a detriment to your day to day living?

Thanks, but don't worry I do get enough fibre.

At my exs no they want for nothing.
At mine they're doing fine but I can't compete with the consoles, holidays etc they get at the other side no.

Yes I'm paid a silly amount - however my ex moved to an insanely expensive part of the country, and I had to take a crippling mortgage to follow the children so housing costs eat at least half my salary. Then there are utility bills + food + transport and children's clothes, presents, clubs etc. I don't go out, my car is > 10 years old, I rarely buy myself clothes but it doesn't take much for me to end up in the red each month.

Is it causing a detriment to my day to day living - well there is the stress of being constantly in debt yes, and I want to be able to have spare money to spend on the kids here.

[Quincythequince]

Then you can’t afford it, it’s not necessary, say no.

I don’t know what you earn, but it doesn’t sound that high to me at all. You can’t afford a console, rarely buy clothes, are in debt and drive a 10 year old car?! Really

[CiaoForDiNiaoSaur]

It's not just breakfast though is it. Your ex is also paying for the music lessons and associated costs.
Are you doing half of the mental load of parenting? Sick days, drs, dentist etc.

And I would say (as an ex shift worker) that if you can be flexible around exes shifts then it's beneficial. It just seems a little pointless for your ex to pay for childcare when they're at work and then not see the dc on their day off if it's possible for you to switch contact days. Of course if its not possible without you needing childcare then it's a moot point. (This is also based on my experience of shift work which was 16 hour days, so I literally wouldn't see the dc on a work day)


My ex would refuse to swap his contact day if I was working because "Saturdays are my day" which meant I didn't see the dc for the entire weekend. (Weirdly the "Saturdays are my day" didn't seem to apply when he wanted to do something else!)

[Quincythequince]

And I realise the above isn’t uncommon at all, but not for people who earn silly money!

Have you said you’re happy to allow a bit more contact time, but only if you don’t pay as you don’t have the money?!

But the according to your OP, it’s food only so can’t you just send a loaf bread, box cereal back to cover these perceived costs! 🙄

[CheeseMmmm]

I'm still slightly aghast that you sat down, worked out number days over year in two different scenarios.

Used online calculator or by hand worked out 4/7 this and X days and so on.

And then posted on MN to have a bitch about it!

That's a very sort of. It's about what's best for your children.

You need to share her shift pattern OP.

Unless ex has someone at home to look after kids while at work. Being able to single handedly juggle kids and work could well be incredibly tricky.

How old DC?

I mean mine 12 14 but if I'm not here, it wouldn't be on to leave alone from 430am, or no one home till 1030 pm. Weekends no one home 7-4...

[PickAChew]

Saying no" is insanely expensive it's risky, lawyers and courts now make me feel physically sick, and most importantly the stress would trickle through to the kids and that's not on. Well just fucking pay for your children instead of using them as chess pieces, then.

[CheeseMmmm]

Some jobs eg DH the shift pattern is fixed and key to role.

He couldn't go part time after we had kids because of that.

Not everyone can change shift patterns. Don't want/can't do the shift pattern = leave job.

What shifts ex do, and how do they cover childcare?

We've had to spend ££££ when I went away for work. Due to the hours needed for care.

[TheCatShatInTheHat]

I don't get why you are having such a hard time here.

You do 50:50 each and no one pays any maintainace! Help her out by being flexible around shifts and she gets the days with the kids when she isn't working. All other money for use on the kids is split evenly.

No one should be paying anything if its 50:50.