DM can't cope financially without me, WWYD?

[ChildcareHelpGrateful]

Situation: I’m a single parent with no help from ExH in the week. My mum helps with childcare and I do pay her a small amount for this (less than after school club but enough to cover her fuel and food for DD as she does live too far from DDs school to pick her up on foot).

Recently my manager asked me to work half an hour extra every day apart from 1 (the night DD has an after school activity, mum currently takes her to this and I pick DD up after it). I discussed it with mum but she wasn’t happy to have DD for another 45 minutes per day. So I booked ASC for 4 days and asked mum to carry on with the night DD has her activity.

I’ve obviously reduced my mums pay to reflect this so she now only gets a 5th of what I gave her before.

She’s just told me that she can’t manage without that money, at all but can’t take DD for those 45 minutes.

Mum works in the day, usually 6 days a week and I know gets no UC. I get a UC topup and once I start my new hours will be better off financially as UC will pay me back 85% of my childcare and I will be slightly better off from working the extra 2 hours a week. So even though childcare will cost me more than it does now I’ll get most of what I pay now back.

If I take that money away from her she’ll have to up her hours and work more but has said she’ll still cover the activity night as she helps my sibling and sibling in law with their DC at weekends.

So WWYD? I don’t want to set a precedence and help her out but also feel bad.

OP. It wouldn't make a difference if your mum was registered as she is family and so not expected to charge you. That is the also the only way around her not being registered. As an unregistered childminder could face a very large fine and parents of the child would face the same.
If your mum really can't manage then she needs to ask to speak to an advisor, maybe citizens advice can help. It is obvious that you care for her very much but you can't afford to fund her. Put your child in proper childcare and claim what you are entitled to.

YANBU to not want to pay your mum extra.
R.e. helping her you have options.
Why is this only your problem to solve when you have a sibling? If your mum is struggling financially you should call a family meeting and see how you all can help. Is she claiming all she can, can other sibling help etc.

Also the 'your mum is an adult and should manage on her own' is so sad.
My mum wouldn't leave me to flounder even though I'm an adult. And vice versa.

Roughly how old is your mother, OP?

I’ve recently just ended a similar financial dependent arrangement with my DM and I’m so glad it’s over!

From what you said in your OP, the financial arrangement that you had was to compensate her for fuel and food costs while she cared for DD - not to top up her income. Your DM needs to accept that you cannot afford to give her money as well as paying for after school club - however I would not recommend her taking over the care that ASC provides as this would most probably put a strain on the relationship that she has with you and DD. She also said No for a reason and that reason is still valid.

My DM has always struggled with money and I agreed to top up her income while she looked after DS for me after school. It worked well for a few weeks but then I began to begrudge giving her the money as it transpired that it wasn’t her income that was the problem, but her lack of budgeting, and resentment began to grow. She no longer looks after DS, I no longer give her money and I now care less about what she chooses to spend her money on.

Her failure to downsize is silly. She hasn’t exactly helped herself. Perhaps she’s made other foolish financial decisions too. You could find that whatever you give her will never be enough.

I think you need a proper chat. It sounds like she’s a real grafter but a poor budgeter.

It sounds like for those 4 days a week (not counting the activity day), your Mum had your daughter from 3.30-5.30pm, adding up to 8 hours a week.

If she now has to increase her work hours from 37 to 42 a week, the pay for 5 hours at BMW, should be a lot more than £20 a week. Plus she will have 3 hours extra free time per week.

So it seems that you will all be financially better off, and your Mum will have more time to relax.

So is the real problem that she is losing an element of control?

It is obvious that you care for her very much but you can't afford to fund her.

I genuinely don't mean to have a go, but I don't think it is obvious to me that OP cares about her mum. All the posts have sounded quite cool and distant on the issue of her mum financially struggling. It's all been described in very transactional terms, she wants this but that leaves me out of pocket - rather than 'I feel bad for mum but...' This is why I asked if there was any background to all this early on in the thread. Others have asked about OP's relationship with her mum and that hasn't been responded to, so it feels like there's more to the story that hasn't been posted.

Ultimately your daughter is your priority and you have to put your finances first to look after her. I wouldn't disagree with that. At the same time, you have had free childcare from your mum - no matter what you say since, you explained it as you paying her expenses. I really can't work out what you want here: if you're feeling bad about your mum's position, or if you feel annoyed that she's raised it with you and just want to be told you're in the right.

It’s a tricky one but you need to treat it as a transaction.

However, she is also your mum! You could maybe give her something every week to help, just to support, but only if you want to and can afford to!

It’s a shame your mum won’t downsize.

What does she need the space for? This seems like the answer.

Mmm going against the grain here but you do you believe your mum when she says she needs the money? It sounds the sort of thing my MiL would say to basically try to manipulate the situation so that she got what she wanted (arrangement to stay the same)! You know your mother best though so will be best placed to say whether that’s the case.

Agree with @redastherose.

Your whole family needs to sit your mum down and make her see sense about continuing to rent a property that is costing her money no matter which way she looks at it.

@ChildcareHelpGrateful

We don't discuss money, she never asked for money off me I offered and she accepted as I don't expect anyone to do my childcare for free.

I'm not sure if she's in debt, possibly. I think her house is Housing Assocation, but she won't move, she refuses to go smaller than 2 beds and actually wants a 3 bed. She's got a bigger place than me as I'm in a tiny 2 bed flat, and manage and there's 2 of us but she says her place is too small.

I agree downsizing would help her.

You think her house is Housing Association?

I don’t want to set a precedence and help her out but also feel bad.

What precedent??? Actually PAYING for her time, instead of just giving her enough to cover gas and food for Your Child? She would have been just as well off NOT helping you with child care.?
She is your Mother, not some random old lady babysitter. You admit you are getting benefits, you will get more wages and be better off. She works SIX days a week at a job and then takes care of your child for basically nothing!!
Unclench your tight fist and set a "precedent" of pretending to be a caring daughter.

Can other siblings pay for childcare? Can she rent out the spare room? Even temporarily? Its often possible to host a foreign student, which pays quite well.

She could also babysit on a formal basis in the evenings.

There are options available to her.

It sounds like you can't afford to help her financially, but I'm sure you would want to help her find a solution. It sounds like small amounts of money that we are talking about.

Both OP and her mother sound financially unintelligent.
OP's posts don't make sense - which is it? Do you pay your mother to look after your daughter or do you give her money to pay for her fuel and your daughter's food? If the latter, how on earth is your mum out of pocket?! If anything she's saved time and energy at the very least.
Plus, she shouldn't be living in a 2 bedroom house if she can't afford it. Why does she want a 3 bedroom house?!

What precedent??? Actually PAYING for her time, instead of just giving her enough to cover gas and food for Your Child? She would have been just as well off NOT helping you with child care.?

Why do people keep saying this - it can't be true, if it were then the mother wouldn't be losing out by stopping having the DD. If she relied on this money it obviously wasn't just expenses - even if that's what both her and OP said, to make it all feel more comfortable - otherwise, as you say, she'd be just the same now.

Has the question still not been answered about if OP's sibling is paying mum for the weekend childcare? I feel a bit sorry for mum working what seems to be 7 days a week ( including babysitting) and not having any money. Something seems wrong. ( don't know anything about UK bedroom tax thing though - not in UK)

@notthemum

'OP. It wouldn't make a difference if your mum was registered as she is family and so not expected to charge you.'

This is not true, if the grandparent is registered and provides the childcare out of the child's main home you can submit it like any other childcare, my mother is a childminder and looks after my child and I claim it back from UC, I know the rule because I work on UC, my mother says that PACEY the childminders association fought for that rule.

@ChildcareHelpGrateful I think you're getting a bit of a hard time here. Maybe because so many posters are comfortable financially and don't understand what it is to have to count every penny.
Op is a single parent with no cm from the father, working full time and relying on uc top up so not earning a large amount. She cannot afford to be financially supporting her mother, that's the bottom line. If her mother isn't looking after her granddaughter she can work the time she was minding her and earn more than the £25 a week

We're talking a tiny amount of money, your mum works full-time, and she's subject to the bedroom tax, we know she must be getting her costs subsidised. (Bedroom tax reduces housing benefit.)

How on Earth does £15 make a difference to your mum's life?

I'm worried - more worried than you, OP, which is a different cause for concern - that your DM has some kind of secret debt. She shouldn't be struggling this much given she's working full-time, so there's got be something else going on.

I think you should raise this with your sibling. There's a warning flag here, and families should do something when they notice a potential problem like this. For all you know, she has a loanshark after her.

The op has already said her DM could up her hours at work. So sounds like her DM is currently part time and has the option to work longer hours.

I just can't see that the op has enough spare to help her Mium out especially when her Mum hasn't been open and honest or shared her true financial circumstances.

Sorry went to bed last night so just caught up.

Relationship with my mum isn't the best but not the worst either, she seems to lunge from one disaster to another, so I'm cold to it as it probably won't be the last time.

She wants a 3 bed as she says her current house is too small for her - I have pointed out I'm in a tiny flat while she has a house but she says that's not her fault, and she should be allowed to live wherever she wants and in whatever size house she wants to.

No idea if my sibling pays her for childcare - not my business.

She works 37 hours a week across 6 days works out as 6 hours a day.

I have never insisted or asked mum to do childcare I was always happy to use ASC, she wanted this arrangement, and I offered the money, she did not ask for it. She also doesn't feed DD a big meal, I still have to give that when I get her home, she usually gives her a sandwich and some crisps or beans on toast or something, so stuff that's not costing a huge amount of money.

No reason given for not being able to do the extra 45 minutes a day. Will probe further. I didn't know I couldn't be sanctioned for not taking the extra hours but I've agreed to them now, plus it helps me out.

I work part time, 30 hours (going up to 32 when my extra half hour kicks in), 6 hours a day 5 days a week. Finish at 5pm, get to my mums for 5.30-5.45pm so when I finish at 5.30pm I'd get to her for 6-6.15pm (traffic is worse where we are ay 5.30 than at 6pm). I get that 6pm is fairly late in the evening thats why I made other arrangements.

@ChildcareHelpGrateful I think you’ve had a ridiculously hard time here. You paid your mum an amount which at least covered her expenses and probably gave her a bit on top. Those saying that the OP didn’t pay for her mum’s time would probably have been on another thread saying how dreadful it was that granny was making a profit from her daughter who is in receipt of UC.

You’ve done the right thing for you and your daughter in taking on extra hours at work, this should improve your income and hopefully help with offers of further hours or extra responsibility and therefore additional income in the future.

If you really wanted to I’d suggest giving your mum £10 for the activity evening or buying her a little treat each week along with the £5, some chocolate or a magazine? And signpost your mum to budgeting resources, you could always tell her it’s what you use.

@GeorgiaGirl52

I don’t want to set a precedence and help her out but also feel bad.

What precedent??? Actually PAYING for her time, instead of just giving her enough to cover gas and food for Your Child? She would have been just as well off NOT helping you with child care.?
She is your Mother, not some random old lady babysitter. You admit you are getting benefits, you will get more wages and be better off. She works SIX days a week at a job and then takes care of your child for basically nothing!!
Unclench your tight fist and set a "precedent" of pretending to be a caring daughter.

Obviously she wouldn’t have been as well off not helping otherwise the loss of the money wouldn’t be a problem now.

How much of the £15 a week that she’ll be better off do you think the OP should give to her mum exactly?