Young woman murdered running, what sort of world is this?!?

[irishfarmer]

A young woman was murdered yesterday in Tullamore, Ireland while out for a run at 4pm. It is not a dangerous area, she was on a popular route along the canal, in day light! These things just do not happen here. I am in total shock. It was a random, unprovoked attack. It's just so awful, 23 years old her whole life ahead of her. She was a teacher so had probably just finished work for the day and wanted to de-stress.

AIBU to think this poor girl should have been able to go for a run on a lovely winter afternoon safely? I know I am not BU just don't know where else to post. I am truly shocked and horrified.

It’s horrendous. They’ll catch the man who did this, he’ll be convicted, he’ll be imprisoned, the papers will brand him a ‘sick monster’, and absolutely nothing will change. Women will just keep being murdered.

In large part because of this ‘not all men’ bullshit that allows us to label the men who perpetrate this kind of crime as aberrant monsters - so we just shrug our collective shoulders and hope the next victim isn’t one of our daughters/sisters/friends, instead of acknowledging that actually, this is part of a systemic, structural issue. And misogyny is a spectrum - with sexist jokes and catcalling at one end, violent pornography somewhere in the middle, and women being randomly killed for male gratification at the other. And if a man participates anywhere on the misogyny spectrum (and they all do), they are responsible for what happens at the extreme end of it.

@Snuggleworm - I run in a dark too but had some really unpleasant experiences with "normal lads", just "having some fun".
They thought it was so funny when I was scared.
Funny enough, I never have a problem when my dog is with me. I'm given a wide berth and feel so much safer.

From the RTE article

"Gardaí said the suspect is well-known to them and has been suspected of being involved in previous violent incidents."

always the same

Bore off

You think the data that shows one woman is murdered pretty much every day by their partner, and that this is where women should be concerned for their safety is boring?

When we have a thread every other day about women being murdered whilst running in daylight, then you can claim it’s “all too bloody common”. Until then, maybe get angry about the situations where you actually could do a thread about it happening every day, but it never makes the news. And because it doesn’t, we get worked up twice a year, the police tell us all how to be safe when running, and the press pretends it cares about violence against women.

@SpudleyLass

It goes without saying that its not all men.

Thats why I don't say it - I just say ''men''.

We all know perfectly well when women say ''men'' in this context , they're not accusing every single man of something horrendous.

Why, then, do people still insist on NAMALT?

THIS THIS THIS!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Sickening. Just absolutely pointless snuffing out of a young life with so much ahead of her. Her poor family and class too.
It makes me so angry too, and no, men do not get it. I am not a very fearful person, but I won't run in the woods alone anymore because I am no longer fit enough to out run anyone. DP thinks I am over cautious.

Whilst cases like this are shocking, we must try to remember that statistically we're much more likely to be murdered at home

I'm not sure this is a comfort. And in the UK the number of unsolved murders is shocking & the vast majority of them are female victims so actually statistically I'm not sure it's clear cut.

@OwMyToe

I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe that this is a man/woman issue. It's a sick, violent, piece-of-shit person issue.

Yes, it's almost always men who commit these random, violent attacks, but I don't believe that will ever change, and "asking men not to kill us"? ...The men who murder are not normal men. There's something seriously, deeply wrong with them, and there's nothing to be gained by acting as though you can "ask men" to not murder and get anything for your trouble.

We might as well ask the everyone in the world to behave themselves, no longer steal or be aggressive, etc. Some people do horrific things, to women and to men. Some men murder. Men are more likely than women to murder. We all know this. It's never going to change. I believe it's more to do with biology/physiology than anything else, though it never helps when a child is raised by horrible parents who perpetuate the cycle of violence. Acting as though the average man on the street is somehow responsible for the crimes of all men is ridiculous. A waste of time and energy, and insulting to all the many decent men in the world.

So sorry for this young woman's family.

You’ve opened your post with ‘I think we’re fooling ourselves if we believe this is a man/woman issue’ then followed that straight up with ‘yes, it’s always men who commit these random violent attacks.’

Are you confused? If it’s always men viciously murdering women, and never women viciously murdering men, then of course it’s a man/woman issue. That’s what people find to be the issue, that it’s ‘always men.’

And to be honest I couldn’t give two fucks about insulting the ‘average man on the street’ because I doubt he’s concerned about the average woman on the street. Christ, if all I had to worry about was that some people might be frightened of me I’d be in heaven.

@DoTheyKnowItsLemonJuice

It wasn't a reprimand, actually, it was a genuine question?

No, it wasn’t. You didn’t “genuinely” wonder if the person you quoted actually intended to write “some men” but somehow forgot, and accidentally wrote “men” multiple times

You were making a point and correcting her in a passive-aggressive, “gentle” way. It was highly inappropriate here. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Fecking Bollocks to that ‘ought to be ashamed’ shite.

Maybe you ‘ought to be ashamed’ trying to shame another woman?
Really, what’s to be gained from it?
Or does it make you feel all Smug and Superior?

RIP Ashling.

Christ, if all I had to worry about was that some people might be frightened of me I’d be in heaven.

I know!! I would love to instill a bit of fear. One of the most liberating things when I was young was having a big black dog. He was daft as anything but looked intimidating. My God, I could walk anywhere, dressed any way I pleased and no fucker made a peep to me.
I miss that feeling.

I live very near where it happened here in Ireland.

There is a lot that can be done to make things more safe for women.

They should make walkways that are just for women, in all major cities.

So that women can walk home through it safely at night.

For example, they could build a walkway that only women can swipe into with swipe cards.

They should make a subway/tube that is for women only, they should have trains for women only.

The majority of women are killed by men. The majority of men are killed by men

Quite. How can something like this happen in broad daylight? Did nobody see? Did nobody help her?

@OwMyToe
I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe that this is a man/woman issue......Yes, it's almost always men who commit these random, violent attacks

So you immediately admit that your first statement is rubbish.

Yep. I can’t take the dog anywhere except the local well-lit park at the moment. DH asked me innocently why I can’t go to the golf course after work as the dog loves it - it’s pitch dark, empty, reached through a dodgy path and woods. He goes there all the time. I walk up and down the park three times. They don’t get it.

@MrsApplepants

If it’s ‘not all men,’ well, what are ‘all the rest of the men’ doing to stop it?

Nothing it seems.

Precisely. They'll walk women home, and they'll treat their own women well - wives, sisters, mums etc, but they don't take on other men and tell them they're being arseholes. Sometimes they are probably frightened themselves - fair enough - but when you are in a big group and there is "banter" you can take them on and tell them the banter isn't ok in the same way you'd say racist banter isn't ok. The more men tell more men to treat women with more respect, the less this will happen.

And the incel websites need to be closed down.

Frankly I am sick of the corrections of ‘some men’.

We don’t have the luxury of niceties.

Every single woman I know - every single one, has had some sort of encounter of serious nature which was either violent or sexual. Or both. From a man. As far as I know it wasn’t the same man. It was men in different counties / different continents even.

So it’s either a small number of prolific perpetrators, who barely have time to eat or sleep in between their attacks OR it’s a bit more than ‘some men’. If you look at the number of tape cases - dropped. Domestic violence cases - dropped. And those are just cases which are reported.

So maybe we stop this softly softly approach, and switch it a bit? Instead of “all women should use the safety app” - monitor all men and then hopefully only some will (unfortunately) commit crimes

A man's world, obviously

Just here to mark my utter sadness. Everyone's life has the same value but particularly hard to see someone so young, who has worked so hard to build an exciting future in her community, have that torn away from her - and from her family. She could have expected a long career in teaching and with music and enriched many lives. Her family and friends loved her. They now have a life sentence of grief. What absolute monster thought he had the right to attack this woman or indeed any woman, and snuff her life and promise out. It's beyond all comprehension. I have no more words.....

@Mufasa1118 - that's nonsense. It starts with "we want to make women feel safe by giving them safe spaces" and it ends with segregating women, giving them some marginal space in the society and telling them that it's for their safety.
How about work on changing the society instead. How about we stop accepting the excuse that men are some hormonal testosterone-filled beasts who can't help themselves and make the streets safer instead of separating women from normal life?

@Mufasa1118

I live very near where it happened here in Ireland.

There is a lot that can be done to make things more safe for women.

They should make walkways that are just for women, in all major cities.

So that women can walk home through it safely at night.

For example, they could build a walkway that only women can swipe into with swipe cards.

They should make a subway/tube that is for women only, they should have trains for women only.

No x 1000

We do not solve male violence by segregating women.

We address male violence, misogyny and entitlement. (By 'we' I mean society. Not women).

@OwMyToe

I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe that this is a man/woman issue. It's a sick, violent, piece-of-shit person issue.

Yes, it's almost always men who commit these random, violent attacks, but I don't believe that will ever change, and "asking men not to kill us"? ...The men who murder are not normal men. There's something seriously, deeply wrong with them, and there's nothing to be gained by acting as though you can "ask men" to not murder and get anything for your trouble.

We might as well ask the everyone in the world to behave themselves, no longer steal or be aggressive, etc. Some people do horrific things, to women and to men. Some men murder. Men are more likely than women to murder. We all know this. It's never going to change. I believe it's more to do with biology/physiology than anything else, though it never helps when a child is raised by horrible parents who perpetuate the cycle of violence. Acting as though the average man on the street is somehow responsible for the crimes of all men is ridiculous. A waste of time and energy, and insulting to all the many decent men in the world.

So sorry for this young woman's family.

This post is horrific. Nothings going to change as men have the biological need to rape and murder so us women should jst give up moaning about it. And anyways, these men aren’t men, they are monsters. No normal man does this.

Perhaps we should go a step further... maybe get rid of laws agn domestic violence and rape within marriage. After all, men have a biological need and all. And maybe while we are at it get rid of the vote for women? Perhaps we should Jst let the taliban know that stoning women is alright because nothings going to change etc?!?

There are no monsters. These men are like you and me. They are brought up in a society where violent porn is normal, where women die at the hands of men they know every single day.... where rapists are rarely convicted. Where women are routinely paid less than men for the same job. Where men can talk about ‘grabbing women by the pussy’ and be elected as president. Where a woman can pour her heart out about a man who abused her and he can still be elected as a Supreme Court judge. Where sporting hero’s gang rape a woman, brag about it on WhatsApp and nothing happens. Where the right of a woman to choose whether she remains pregnant or not is under constant threat from male politicians.

Some men grow up in societies where the sight of a woman’s hair is seen as just cause for rape and stoning a woman is normal.

Change is hard. But change is possible.

How can something like this happen in broad daylight? Did nobody see? Did nobody help her?

It happened very quickly. The attack was disturbed by another woman out exercising. Sadly, Ashling died at the scene.

Please don't suggest a false narrative of bystanders doing nothing.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

The majority of women are killed by men. The majority of men are killed by men

Quite. How can something like this happen in broad daylight? Did nobody see? Did nobody help her?

Two women saw it happen and intervened but it was too late. I am so upset, i have a daughter the same age as Aishling and i can't stop thinking about how her life ended, her poor family.

@Cocomarine

RIP Ashling.

@Elodeastar my experience is that actually it is “all men” who don’t understand why we feel afraid. Sure, my husband (as an example) might nod his head when I say, “no, I’m not running my usual route tonight because it’ll be twilight by the end and it might not be safe” (in our lovely quiet low crime village). But honestly, he thinks I’m just being sensibly cautious, but more than needed. He has no idea of the fear. Not really. You can throw all the stats you like at me about young men and knife crime too… but fact is I don’t know a single man who would change his run route in my village at twilight. Men might nod and believe we feel afraid - but they (all the menz) have not idea how that fear feels, and how frustrated and angry and powerless those frequent small adjustments make me. For my husband, it’s just a sensible change of route, no biggie. For me - it encapsulates that some men hate me because I am a woman. That’s crushing.

I don't know. Maybe it's just men of younger generations. My dad is incredibly anxious about my mum or me going to certain places after dark. And it's 100% not in a controlling way. But if we decide to walk our dogs together on a winter evening he always stops what he's doing and comes with us if we are planning to take the dogs somewhere that they can run off lead rather than just around the busy streets. If he's looking after DS while I go out, I never need to explain to him why I'll be later because I'm driving in the wrong direction first to drop my friend home rather than let her walk home in the dark. Etc.

I think that men in their 60s+, while from a generation that can still be sexist in lots of ways. Are a lot more cognisant of the danger that women are in from men. Obviously there are assholes and abusers in that age group too. But I think that the average 'good' older man is more protective of women's safety as an automatic reaction.

May Aisling rest in peace, such an awful violation, I am truly sickened by it. I read that there is to be a vigil outside the Dail (Parliament) tomorrow at 4pm, the time Aisling was murdered. Organised by Irish Women's Council. I doubt there will be a similar vigil organised by any men though do you?

Anyway, here is a clip of Aisling and her sister Amy performing Irish Traditional Music at the Tradfest in Tullamore in 2019. What a beautiful girl, may she rest in peace.