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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Young woman murdered running, what sort of world is this?!?

373 replies

irishfarmer · 13/01/2022 14:15

A young woman was murdered yesterday in Tullamore, Ireland while out for a run at 4pm. It is not a dangerous area, she was on a popular route along the canal, in day light! These things just do not happen here. I am in total shock. It was a random, unprovoked attack. It's just so awful, 23 years old her whole life ahead of her. She was a teacher so had probably just finished work for the day and wanted to de-stress.

AIBU to think this poor girl should have been able to go for a run on a lovely winter afternoon safely? I know I am not BU just don't know where else to post. I am truly shocked and horrified.

OP posts:
Roosk · 13/01/2022 15:53

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I wonder if you meant to write 'some men' though, and not just 'men'

Men as a collective species are a great threat to the safety of women and girls.

Men - as a group.

Hear hear. Mensa a class are a threat to women as a class.

This is heartbreaking and frightening. And as well as Ashling, let’s remember that stretch of canal is calledFiona’s Way after Fiona Pender who disappeared in 1996, seven months pregnant, and of whom no trace has ever been found.

HelloBunny · 13/01/2022 15:53

The couple I babysat for, the husband would walk me home (just next door). He was such a lovely man. But... I used to think, what if dies something? Because my uncle did.

frogswimming · 13/01/2022 15:54

I heard a man humming gold digga today. Even that just didn't sit right with me after this news.

Not all men is the new all lives matter.

HelloBunny · 13/01/2022 15:55

what if he does something, I mean.

Anotherviewtoyou · 13/01/2022 15:58

@HelloBunny

what if he does something, I mean.
Unfortunately it’s a legitimate thought. Shows how pervasive the issue is.
Toomanyradishes · 13/01/2022 15:58

Not all men only gets dragged out for shit like this so I have not time for it

Ever see a facebook thread where someone says male footballers deserve to be paid more than female ones, because 'men' are better than women at it

How many men pipe up then not all men'

Or one of those 'men fought and died in world war 2 so you can have an opinion' theres no 'not all men' then

And on and on, men are only quick to say 'not all men' when its assault, rape, murder. Not all men when it suits them. I have literally zero time for this shit anymore.

Men assault, rape and kill women.

meteoric · 13/01/2022 16:00

Fuck me really, a "not all men" post? Here?!

Well no shit Sherlock, not all men are murderers, and most of us are married to one or have sons or brothers and other loved ones - but really, read the room.

"Gardaí said the suspect is well-known to them and has been suspected of being involved in previous violent incidents."

This is awful. They must have been waiting for this. I wonder how many other men are on official or unofficial watchlists and are just ticking time bombs (and yes, I said men! The stronger and more violent sex of the species.)

Dottybackorcid · 13/01/2022 16:00

@sweetbellyhigh

I feel there should be a stage of emergency imposed with restrictions on ALL MEN for however long it takes for children, girls and women to be safe.

MvF violence is the pandemic that has never been addressed in any meaningful way.

And to any posters breathless to counter with not all men or oh it's so rare, save your fat fingers or post elsewhere.

Good job no one is listening to you then 🙄. No all men 😄
Theblacksheepandme · 13/01/2022 16:06

HelloBunny
The couple I babysat for, the husband would walk me home (just next door). He was such a lovely man. But... I used to think, what if dies something? Because my uncle did.

I think he was being thoughtless walking you home by himself. He may be lovely but men need to realise that we feel uncomfortable in these situations.

ArabellaScott · 13/01/2022 16:06
Flowers
Snoken · 13/01/2022 16:09

@Theblacksheepandme

HelloBunny The couple I babysat for, the husband would walk me home (just next door). He was such a lovely man. But... I used to think, what if dies something? Because my uncle did.

I think he was being thoughtless walking you home by himself. He may be lovely but men need to realise that we feel uncomfortable in these situations.

Agree with you, but this is a tricky one. Either the babystitter walks on her own, and could run into a vile man, or the wife walks back with babysitter, and then she could meet the same fate coming back home again. They can't all three go, as there are presumably young children at home sleeping. I really don't know what the answer is.
UserBot2022 · 13/01/2022 16:09

@frogswimming

The blanket term helps because it puts the responsibility back onto men to change the interactions they have with other men.

Not to forward porn. Not to laugh at inappropriate jokes. Not to go to lap dancing clubs or hire strippers for stag nights. Not to tolerate men who visit prostitutes. Not to watch porn. To delete male friends who forward inappropriate things from WhatsApp groups. To think about how they approach women in clubs and react when their mates get knocked back. Not to wolf whistle. Not to tell girls to smile. Not to tolerate a colleague with the nickname 'the Rapist'. Not to ask if it was dark. Not to suggest self defence lessons or pepper spray.

Namalt, but all men can help with what is acceptable in male interactions.

👏
Cryingbutstilltrying · 13/01/2022 16:10

This is so sad, RIP Aisling and condolences to all who knew and loved her.

I stopped walking and running around my rural area back when Sarah was murdered just going about her life. I no longer felt safe by myself. DH was amused when I got a treadmill to train indoors instead but went along with it. Today I pointed out, this is why. I think he gets it now.
Women aren’t safe, anywhere, anytime. Unfortunately if we don’t protect ourselves no one else will do it for us. I hate that it means I have to change my own behaviour but what choice is there? Do everything right and still the worst can happen.
I live in despair at the things I will one day have to teach my dd.

OwMyToe · 13/01/2022 16:10

I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe that this is a man/woman issue. It's a sick, violent, piece-of-shit person issue.

Yes, it's almost always men who commit these random, violent attacks, but I don't believe that will ever change, and "asking men not to kill us"? ...The men who murder are not normal men. There's something seriously, deeply wrong with them, and there's nothing to be gained by acting as though you can "ask men" to not murder and get anything for your trouble.

We might as well ask the everyone in the world to behave themselves, no longer steal or be aggressive, etc. Some people do horrific things, to women and to men. Some men murder. Men are more likely than women to murder. We all know this. It's never going to change. I believe it's more to do with biology/physiology than anything else, though it never helps when a child is raised by horrible parents who perpetuate the cycle of violence. Acting as though the average man on the street is somehow responsible for the crimes of all men is ridiculous. A waste of time and energy, and insulting to all the many decent men in the world.

So sorry for this young woman's family. Flowers

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 13/01/2022 16:10

We're doing well so far this year. We managed to get to 13th January without a women being murdered by a man. To our knowledge, obvs.

It's getting worse isn't it?

irishfarmer · 13/01/2022 16:11

@Snoken you're right we do have to be careful and it's not right. We shouldn't have to be afraid. What is so shocking to me though is that she did everything "right" it was daylight, it's a popular spot.

God I don't know what I would have done if I had been one of the women to come across the attack. Screamed at him and thrown rocks, and of course called 999. It says he was well know for other violent attacks to the Gardaí I know people can only be charged/ jailed for crimes they have, not may commit but I wish they could have done more. I don't know what that could have been.

Others saying statistically the home is more dangerous for women and the rates of DV are appalling.

OP posts:
youwouldthink · 13/01/2022 16:12

So sad and so angry about this. Is this what we're raising our daughters to??
Beautiful Aisling, the devastation to her family, the women who found her, the children she taught only yesterday and the community.
Sickened by it. Broad daylight and a well used path. Just where are we safe anymore
RIP xx

gabsdot45 · 13/01/2022 16:14

This is tragic. I have a 14 year old daughter and an 18 year old son. My son can roam the streets, call for friends, go into the city, and in recent years be out after dark.
I worry about my daughter walking home from the bus stop after school which is 5 minutes away.
It's not fair.
RIP Aisling and God bless her family, friends, colleagues, and students.

PaleGreenGhost · 13/01/2022 16:14

Women won't be anywhere close to safe from men until it is socially unacceptable to be a misogynist. Sadly we are so very very far from this point.

BoredZelda · 13/01/2022 16:14

all too bloody common.

Is it though?

Most murder victims are men, and most women are murdered by a partner or someone they know. This type of murder is rare, it’s just that it makes the news.

It is a horrific thing that has happened and I’m sure we will all be a bit more careful for a while but we also need to remember that women being made to be unnecessarily fearful isn’t a good thing either.

Anotherviewtoyou · 13/01/2022 16:15

@OwMyToe

I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe that this is a man/woman issue. It's a sick, violent, piece-of-shit person issue

Read this www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/18/jill-meagher-husband-forget-the-lone-monster-myth-society-has-a-role-in

LaChanticleer · 13/01/2022 16:15

Oh this is awful.

And sadly the world in which we women live …

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/01/2022 16:16

No, not all men.

But this example of some men was well known to a lot of other men for violent behaviour. Those men hadn't deemed his behaviour bad enough for incarceration... so maybe not as few men as some women may think actually consider the danger to women that are men pose.

Laws, in the making and policing, are as patriarchal as it gets. The law does not seem it useful to prevent a man from further harming a woman. He has to actually do harm on multiple occasions - and even then may be given a get out of jail free card, like "I slipped and my penis entered her vagina" or maybe "she asked for a foreign object to be rammed into her vagina and to be left bruised and bleeding, unconscious at the bottom of the stairs"

So please, don't do the NAMALT thing here, on a thread like this. Because too many men turn a blind eye, don't give enough credence to male violence. Too many perfectly nice, good men.

Floundery · 13/01/2022 16:18

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Anotherviewtoyou · 13/01/2022 16:19

From the article above @OwMyToe

Meagher said this “monster myth” allows men to overlook the root causes of violence perpetrated against women, or even to blame women for being assaulted.

“We see instances of this occur in bars when men become furious and verbally abusive to, or about, women who decline their attention,” he said.

“We see it on the street as groups of men shout comments, grab, grope and intimidate women with friends either ignoring or getting involved in the activity.

We see it in male peer groups where rape jokes and disrespectful attitudes towards women go uncontested. The monster myth creates the illusion that this is simply banter, and sexist horseplay.”

Meagher said that while casual racism is mostly shunned, the “trivialisation” of male violence against women is a “staple, invidious, and rather boring subject of mirth”.

“We can either examine this by setting our standards against the monster-rapist, or by accepting that this behaviour intrinsically contributes to a culture in which rape and violence are allowed to exist,” Meagher said.

Bayley’s actions, Meagher said, were framed by the media as being unconnected to society, with men allowed to comfort themselves that whatever questionable behaviour was committed by their friends, it wasn’t comparable to Bayley.

Meagher said the “monster myth” is a comforting illusion because it allows men to bypass an examination of “ourselves or our male-dominated society”.

“It is also an excuse to implement a set of rules on women on ‘how not to get raped’, which is a strange cocktail of naïveté and cynicism,” he said.

“It is naïve because it views rapists as a monolithic group of thigh-rubbing predators with a checklist rather than the bloke you just passed in the office, pub or gym, cynical because these rules allow us to classify victims.

“We can only move past violence when we recognise how it is enabled, and by attributing it to the mental illness of a singular human being, we ignore its prevalence, its root causes, and the self-examination required to end the cycle,” he said.

“The paradox, of course is that in our current narrow framework of masculinity, self-examination is almost universally discouraged.”