Is MN middle class? Feeling inadequate and that my life is boring.

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Is MN mainly full of middle to upper class posters?

Having read through some of the threads, especially tonight's holiday thread where everyone appears to be having multiple holidays this year, I'm feeling very low and inadequate, and that there's something wrong in my life

Oh well, comparison is the thief of joy and all that.

But are your primates privately educated and Oxbridge aspirants? grin

Well that’s the problem with just letting anyone into oxbridge. It used to be for the really good families. Now it’s just the commoners aping the middle classes…

@Kanaloa

But are your primates privately educated and Oxbridge aspirants? grin

Well that’s the problem with just letting anyone into oxbridge. It used to be for the really good families. Now it’s just the commoners aping the middle classes…

Groan. In my defence, the M and V keys are close together on the keyboard. Quite close together.

There's definitely some porkies told on here.

I'm super important and very highly paid which is obviously why I spend a big chunk of my day on Mumsnet

Yes it seems to be upperclass.

but I think us plebs just lurk more, I mean I cant post about holidays in a holiday thread, never had one. Not sure anyone would reply to anything I am interested in I.e Attack on Titan final series part 2 episode 1 for example or drooling over RDJ but there we go.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks Its not even necessarily status goods. there was a thread yesterday about someone who regrets buying her flat. There was this poster who probably didnt read all the posts and said' oh poor darling, it must be so awful to live in london and always having to live in flats, poor you, come live in my commuter town'. Of course, that poster did reveal the location of her flat (kensington) and there are enough london mumsnetters to realize that this lady is technically way above average to afford to pay £68k in stamp duty (it was a £1.25 million flat for a FTB).. but yes if she didn't put in so much detail and she just said 'flat' without location, there would be more posters saying 'poor underprivileged you'. I mean this lady wrote lots of subsequent posts, but many posters still didn't read and went ' oh for your mental health, a few k in stamp duty is nothing' ( i presume they are posting from the north or some cheaper area). some probably haven't even realized the stamp duty isn't 6k, its 68k!

And maybe this lady would feel inadequate as while she must know deep down she is richer than average, it would be human nature to feel a bit crap if people kept writing pitying posts.

Like I know I can afford a sofa, but yesterday I felt a bit crap about my sofa bench thread because people kept telling me i needed a proper sofa to relax. I think thats just human nature even though I know logically that I shouldn't feel crap about it cos having a sofa doesn't define me as a person, just like having a noisy kensington flat with no private garden doesn't define that other lady

@Thadhiya can you recommend any companies that have cottages by the sea for £200? All the accommodation we've been able to find is around that price per night, or is that the price range you were thinking of?

I mean cottage accommodation, we can find hotels for less than that, though all of the B&Bs seem to have been swallowed up by AirBnB owners, or are really expensive as well...

@VelvetChairGirl

Yes it seems to be upperclass.

but I think us plebs just lurk more, I mean I cant post about holidays in a holiday thread, never had one. Not sure anyone would reply to anything I am interested in I.e Attack on Titan final series part 2 episode 1 for example or drooling over RDJ but there we go.

Your threads will be interesting. Dont be put off posting. We need more of us plebs to post in my opinion.

@VelvetChairGirl

EVERYONE wants to drool over RDJ!! Please start that thread because I would much rather hear people’s top 10 Tony Stark outfits than hear about people going to Cancun or wherever.

I think many people on MN must be v middle class. Don't go near the 'personal luxuries' thread! It's like an alien planet to me.
I'm not very mc, I earn a pittance compared to what most people on here seem to earn, no pension etc.

@Packingsoapandwater it could be that a lot of posters are in London. However most Londoners in their 30s who buy are either buying flats or houses in zone 4-6. We truly save £1k per month which goes overpaying our mortgage with post tax income of £4200. We have no DC. we are still fairly young so if we continue working hard to increase earnings, we could probably keep up that savings level with 1 DC esp if we send to state primary school and my MIL helps us with childcare (more common than you think).

We have a comfortable life and holidays. But we do have a small 2 bed flat and no car. We lived at home for 3 years to raise a 70k deposit.

The posts I find a bit strange are the women who can work flexibly, pay childcare for 2, have a 4 bed house in SE, can pay full season tickets (£5k per annum) for DH, have cars, lots of holidays, big pensions. But have been independent and privately renting since age 18 until they could buy a house with garden. So unless they are the minority who can conceive at 40, they would be in their 30s, so in the space of 10 years, they could basically pay rent and save up enough money to buy a 4 bed house in the SE (which in 99% of cases is more expensive than my london flat i.e. more than 400k), plus pay for childcare and maternity leave. Maybe they bought cheaper 10 years ago or something, but I don't think they were actually that cheap so many years ago, esp if you were also renting...

And yes of course a lot of these women with the big houses are probably outside London/SE but i know from stats that most high paying jobs are concentrated in London/SE

In my experience, you have to cut back on some areas to enjoy some comfort in others. So on a S & B thread, i look like quite a fancy person, but on a Property thread, my flat is probably one of the smaller ones. But there are women who seem to have it all...

[quote AllThePogs]@MarieIVanArkleStinks there is a lot of stigma around being poor. People do look down on you and judge you. And that includes judging you if you have a shit old sofa that you can't afford to replace. So seeing someone buying one chair for £5k will compound those feelings.
I know you probably have never experienced this as you show no understanding of it, but how others treat you matters and poverty does affect how others treat you. Even go to a cafe for a coffee and you will be treated differently if you look middle class rather than poor.[/quote]
@AllThePogs I intended no offence. I would, however, contradict the statement in your second paragraph. You don't know; because I'm a stranger on the internet. People can have experienced grinding poverty and periods of economic stability and better wealth in one lifetime. Also, any force of circumstance can quickly result in our transition from one of these states to another: not excluding ill-health, which can happen to anyone at any time.

I had also failed - my failing, no one else's - to make a distinction between economic wealth vs. poverty, and that curious, nebulous state of mind we know as 'class' but which in a lot of senses has only a tenuous link with British notions of class distinction. (It's the latter I'm mainly complaining of).

I have no time for material snobbery, and even less for the infuriating type of attitude - seen more than once on Mumsnet - that it's the fault of poor people that they're poor, and if they only 'worked harder', they wouldn't be poor anymore. I suppose they include in that number all the lower-income employees who kept this country practically propped up during lockdown while the rest of us were furloughed or WFH.

I've no idea what it means to 'look' middle class: perhaps I'd better go take a look at the Shapeless Dress/Toast thread! If that's the kind of style people are attributing to the aspiring 'middle' classes, whatever they are, I'll take a hard pass and stick with my trust DMs and ancient Penny Lane coat ...

I haven't read the holiday thread but there might be some truth in it as I think if you around fairly wealthy people or in that context, environment you inadvertently benefit from it, there is some phrase for this something about the Matthew affect. For example, middle class family invite friends to stay in a villa they have rented for the whole summer in a sort after destination. It is at no expense to them as they are working there remotely and have the room etc. The family accept it but have another holiday booked regardless as they can afford it so that's two holidays booked for the year already. They may have another holiday cottage to go to due to family like older parents paying and inviting them in the Easter holiday. Another example, people who have bought tickets for expensive things like the theatre, they can't go but offer them for free on WhatsApp group of local parents all of whom are pretty wealth off and they can afford to take the hit or have been given them due to their jobs and offer them up for the taking as they can't go themselves.

[quote onlychildhamster]@MarieIVanArkleStinks Its not even necessarily status goods. there was a thread yesterday about someone who regrets buying her flat. There was this poster who probably didnt read all the posts and said' oh poor darling, it must be so awful to live in london and always having to live in flats, poor you, come live in my commuter town'. Of course, that poster did reveal the location of her flat (kensington) and there are enough london mumsnetters to realize that this lady is technically way above average to afford to pay £68k in stamp duty (it was a £1.25 million flat for a FTB).. but yes if she didn't put in so much detail and she just said 'flat' without location, there would be more posters saying 'poor underprivileged you'. I mean this lady wrote lots of subsequent posts, but many posters still didn't read and went ' oh for your mental health, a few k in stamp duty is nothing' ( i presume they are posting from the north or some cheaper area). some probably haven't even realized the stamp duty isn't 6k, its 68k!

And maybe this lady would feel inadequate as while she must know deep down she is richer than average, it would be human nature to feel a bit crap if people kept writing pitying posts.

Like I know I can afford a sofa, but yesterday I felt a bit crap about my sofa bench thread because people kept telling me i needed a proper sofa to relax. I think thats just human nature even though I know logically that I shouldn't feel crap about it cos having a sofa doesn't define me as a person, just like having a noisy kensington flat with no private garden doesn't define that other lady[/quote]
Normal human nature, I guess. It's hard to be immune to this society's constant preoccupation with all this 'class' bollocks when it's in your face all the time. It's what our materialistic, capitalist, neoliberal society values - at the same time privileging the obscenely rich top tier who own the vastly overwhelming bulk of the nation's wealth - so of course everyone is going to be influenced by that at some time or to some extent. I don't exclude myself from that. And I wish things were otherwise. But short of going off-grid, setting up a commune or taking up a nomadic lifestyle, it's not easy know what the solution to that problem is. A life of travel also costs money. And other nations have tried the communist utopia and we've seen where that led ...

I actually know quite a few people in RL who earn top money. I don't. But I also have over the years done tax returns for accountancy firms, so have processed 1000's of people on over £100k. Does that count?

@lilifer www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4450194-what-s-the-broken-thing-in-your-house-that-everyone-just-puts-up-with?pg=1

It's hard to be immune to this society's constant preoccupation with all this 'class' bollocks when it's in your face all the time.

Is it though? It never crosses my mind until I see threads like this on MN.

Surely it almost doesn’t matter if Mumsnet is middle class or not? There are people who can afford to be on holidays all year long and others who can’t even manage an holiday every couple of years. Surely the majority of people both in real life and on Mumsnet, falls in middle.

But not being able to have multiple holidays a year doesn’t mean you have to feel inadequate or that your life is automatically boring. I travel quite a lot every year both for work and personal purposes and it most definitely doesn’t mean my life isn’t often boring and uneventful or that I am rich.

What do you feel would help you feel more fulfilled (rather than more on par with people on Mumsnet?) if it’s a holiday abroad is there anyway you could save a bit? European flight tickets are extremely cheap usually (got a return flight Milan-Berlin for Xmas week for 40€ return) and plenty of destinations cost well under £50 one way, and if you aren’t picky in terms of accommodation (so favor a cheap hotel/Airbnb or even an hostel over an all-inclusive resort) you could very easily get a week or weekend away for extremely cheap potentially a few times a year (though yes if you have multiple kids etc… and on very low income or benefits then it’s a bit/lot harder to save up and make it happen on a regular basis but not impossible to maybe make it happen once a year or once every two years depending on finances and deals available).

I love finding cheap trips and get to travel a lot because I focus and finding the cheapest deals so happy to help you in your search if you want some help in this area as I used to be very low income but somehow always managed to find ways to travel and explore the world despite my low income.

Apart from traveling though, there are plenty of things to make life less boring that doesn’t necessarily cost money. What are you into? What things do you feel you are lacking? Maybe we can brainstorm and help you find things that make you feel a bit more like your life is what you would want it to be if you don’t feel that’s the case already.

I am not middle class at all, I was born quite poor working class (food bank kind of poor) but it motivated me to try and make life what I want it to be irrelevant of what the traditional path is and what the rest of the world does (be it on Mumsnet or out of it) and it worked very well for me. Of course it’s not necessarily that straightforward but I do feel you can find ways to keep you fulfilled almost irrelevant of the situation you are in, if you are good at analyzing your needs and findings ways to get them met.

[quote PickAChew]@lilifer www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4450194-what-s-the-broken-thing-in-your-house-that-everyone-just-puts-up-with?pg=1[/quote]
Thank you! 😀

I think a lot of folk live on fantasy Island and yes a lot of porkies told on here

@coogee

It's hard to be immune to this society's constant preoccupation with all this 'class' bollocks when it's in your face all the time.

Is it though? It never crosses my mind until I see threads like this on MN.

Yes, it is. It's definitely not just on this website. It exists in other countries too, but to this extent it's a peculiarly British hang-up. I try to tune it out most of the time, too. As a topic of conversation it can get very boring.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks there is a lot of regional inequality in the UK. Some parts are poorer than bulgaria while some parts of London are richer than monaco.

I mean, i think it leads to a disconnect and a lot of confusion. I mean as a londoner with a £1k mortgage (and who passed bank's affordability criteria), if I couldn't afford a £38 dress from boden, i probably couldn't afford shelter either. Btw £1000 can barely get you a studio flat if you rented in many parts of London!

And as a foreigner, if I couldn't afford shelter, I wouldn't be here, I would be back home. However for someone in the north who has always lived in the UK with a £400 mortgage on a house with a garden, such a dress is 10% of her mortgage so its akin to me buying a £100 dress (which I only did on 2 occasions in my life so far). Therefore someone looking at me spending £38 on a normal dress would probably feel very resentful. Same goes for holidays too; i know for a lot of young londoners- holidays are not really that expensive for them when they can just get the tube to the airport and pay very little for a ryanair flight!

I find it quite offensive to assume I'd be lying because my life is different to yours.

We have a 'big' holiday every summer, we go away for a couple of nights in half terms and a week at Easter - England or NI (which is stupidly expensive).

We have good salaries, DH is a teacher so no holiday childcare to pay for which is nice after putting twins through nursery, I was about £100 in profit if referencing one salary at that stage but it would have been detrimental to my career to not go back.

Nice but not huge house in SE London, kids aren't in private school but we are lucky that we have great options where we are which is why we haven't moved to a bigger house to stay in catchment. We also don't have to deal with grammar lottery in Kent.

Kids do horse riding twice a week and guides. They also have a tutor because they are quite frankly behind as they are youngest in the class and need some extra support. We're lucky we can afford to pay for it.

But - I worked my arse off to get to where I am now and I had parents who instilled the importance of education, and to be told I'm lying about it annoys me.

But - I worked my arse off to get to where I am now and I had parents who instilled the importance of education, and to be told I'm lying about it annoys me.

So have lots of working class people.

You've also had a lot of luck to be where you are, so sometimes it's just worth having a bit of gratitude and letting such comments go over your head because they're not personal to you and doesn't change the position you're in.

I haven’t posted on the holiday thread but we actually have to go away for a certain weekend because we live too close to a festival site and otherwise the thumping bass will make us lose our minds. We didn’t go away last year and DP walked 2 hours away in the middle of the night to try and get away from it!