Is MN middle class? Feeling inadequate and that my life is boring.

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Is MN mainly full of middle to upper class posters?

Having read through some of the threads, especially tonight's holiday thread where everyone appears to be having multiple holidays this year, I'm feeling very low and inadequate, and that there's something wrong in my life

Oh well, comparison is the thief of joy and all that.

We're early retired at 60 and 61. We have both worked at average paid jobs (me in the public sector) all our lives. I posted in that holiday thread because we have started travelling now we are not working. I had my children young (3, in my 20s) and we were always hard-up- we holidayed in the west country in a caravan for years and didn't take our children abroad until a trip to Lanzarote when my oldest was 14.

What I'm saying is, it's not necessarily about being wealthy - my children are now all grown and working, our mortgage is paid off so we can afford holidays. We still don't have an extravagant lifestyle- no expensive hobbies, second hand car etc. We don't eat out unless we're on holiday. I research and book all our holidays myself as it saves a lot of money but travelling is our favourite thing to do :)

I think the default predominant world view on Mn is lower-middle-class -- it's visible in the aspirations to a 'detached house and a nice car and foreign holidays', the anxiety about schooling/ 'good schools' etc. and a widespread tendency to compare yourself anxiously with other people to see how you're 'getting on'.

It's not everyone, obviously, and LMC can of course cover a wide range of income levels, and isn't necessarily limited by your upbringing, job etc.

@99victoria nobody is saying a holiday is only available to the rich, it does depend on what type of holiday you have.
But if by average paying jobs you mean you were both earning £30k a year, then a combined income of £60k until recently, plus now final salary pension, does mean you are better off than most.

@chessycurls I totally agree with this. I recently asked about how much people would feel comfortable paying for a mortgage on here and the responses were so much lower than people I know irl. It must be people who bought a house 20/30 years ago or who don’t live in cities

You are talking income,not class.

[quote Minfilia]@AlDanvers

Most of MN seems to base class on a BBC survey, which is confusing at best. Apparently, you can't move class or it takes 3 generations to change class. There's no set rules.

I had to Google this. I got told I was “elite”

I’m not. I’m 100% working class and 3 generations previously, my family were travellers!

It’s an old survey though and income, house values etc have changed significantly since then. If the survey was repeated today with comparative incomes I would get a very different result!![/quote]
I came across it on another 'mn is so middle class' thread, a couple of months ago.

I think I came out elite, but then some mners insist you are the class you born as, you can't change. No idea if that's true, but that would make me working class.

I find it all too confusing, tbh and genuine have no idea how it actually works

If it makes you feel better OP, I have been slammed on Mumsnet for having an 'unrelatable life' as I bought a london flat at 27, go abroad multiple times a year, eat out every week, go on regular day trips to towns and other attractions and shop at Boden/Joules (only sales items!), but I have an ongoing thread now on the property thread about whether £1400 is too much to spend on a sofa bench and PP are telling me that this is very cheap honestly and a poster spent £5k on a chair she doesn't use.

I am sorry, i can't relate at all. When I first bought our flat in London 2 years ago, we were worried about having enough money to even furnish our flat, we were fully prepared to buy everything in Ikea. We bought from Ikea, Muji and Made; could not have imagined spending anything like £5k. we have the money now but I still balk a little at spending so much when we have lived quite well till now with cheaper furniture. For some posters, it seems 5k on a a chair is something really normal. so you see, most people probably end up feeling inadequate on Mumsnet in some area. Some people spend more on some areas, other less. However unless you keep a record of which posters have nice stuff in excel and split them into categories, it may seem like everyone is spending £££ on every area in their life and that is just not true. I don't have a car or a tv and as it turns out (lots of furniture that people consider essential) and I don't really want those things, but most people do want those things and consider them essentials, so if people are envying my life, they shouldn't...

@AllthePogs

I earned around £24k most of my working life although the last few years I had a job that paid £33k. My OH averaged £28k. I worked part-time mostly because I had 3 children (and there was no financial help for childcare) so my work pension will be £6k. It's not final salary anymore- that changed in 2014, along with the age. I can't get my work pension until 67 (my state pension age) unless I take a reduction in it (5% for every year). My OH's pension is about £12k and we both do a bit of part-time work but we are by no means well off. We just prioritise what we spend on. Our fixed outgoings are about £13k - anything we get in over and above that we spend on holidays.

Ironically of course, we will be much better off when we both reach state retirement age but we will be almost 70 by then and both my parents died in their early 70s so who knows?

A lot of people think our lives our interesting. My career, aspirations and work are normally pleasurable and interesting save the less intriguing admin tasks - to me at least. My travel plans and overseas adventures are a source of endless fascination, as are my kid and me/their hobbies and interests. Goods we own are less interesting.

From the outside looking in, the minutiae of our lives is no doubt soul-suckingly boring. The same applies however much detritus people dump on social media.

As for 'class', that's an even more tedious British preoccupation that permeates every corner of our society, and is definitely not restricted just to Mumsnet as some of its members have suggested. We live with it on such a constant basis that we probably don't even notice it most of the time. It's also fair to say other countries have their own variations on a similar theme. But go overseas for any duration - the US or the continent - and it's very apparent once you come back how pervasive this is in Britain.

The problem with a holiday thread is that people who aren’t going anywhere won’t open it or post as much. Some people will be curious, but most people will go in it just to brag.

I’m on maternity leave so won’t be going anywhere this year, except a wedding and couple of hen parties.

I get paid £22k and my husband gets £21k. We’ve bought a house but only because we live in a cheaper area. I feel like we earn enough to get by (or at least did before baby). One big expense would probably ruin us though.

@99victoria sorry you didn't have to give me a rundown of your finances. I too cant withdraw my pension until 67 without high actuarial reductions. Both I and my DP will be working until 67, although hopefully part-time as we get older - but not necessarily.
We are not well off but can afford cheap holidays. I know what the OP means though when you see people talking about a skiing holiday at Easter, Canaries at half-term, Cornwall in July and South Africa in August, etc. Some people do seem to have a massive amount of money.

For some posters, it seems 5k on a a chair is something really normal. so you see, most people probably end up feeling inadequate on Mumsnet in some area. Some people spend more on some areas, other less.

You see, I'd feel 'inadequate' if I badly let somebody down, failed a friend when they needed me, failed in some way as a parent, said something cruel or indiscreet which hurt someone, tailgated someone and caused a crash, cheated on my husband, screwed up my job with significant implications for others or trashed my own professional standing through unethical conduct, ie by plagiarising someone else's ideas.

It would never occur to me to feel adequate or otherwise through acquisition of particular material goods, especially those associated with supposed status. I find it such a shame that society is so apt to judge on those criteria, rather than the ones which actually matter.

'Class' bores me rigid. It's - dare I say it - de classé.

I think people feel inadequate because people are typically a lot more forthcoming about what they have, than how they got it. And if they do talk about how they got it, its generally in terms of 'working their arse off', which can make people with less think they haven't done enough. If people were more honest about the financial help they got from parents, their good fortune in meeting an affluent partner, and the fact that a huge element of success is down to the cards you've been dealt, then while people may feel envious, they'd probably see there was no need to feel inadequate.

Class does seem to be an obsession on MN - I honestly don’t come across it anywhere else. Here it’s applied to just about anything - even clothing brands recently - when surely it was more a case of ‘middle cost’ clothing, than MC.

If anything, I notice quite a bit of MN sneering at MC people on MN - or perhaps that should be ‘people perceived as MC’.
Some people like to say they’re ‘proudly’ WC - why would anyone be ‘proud’ of whatever class they think they were born into? It’s not as if it was down to any of their own efforts.

Some people like to say they’re ‘proudly’ WC - why would anyone be ‘proud’ of whatever class they think they were born into? It’s not as if it was down to any of their own efforts.

It’s the same reason you will often hear people say they are ‘proud to be black’ but it would be borderline racist or at least extremely odd to say you were ‘proud to be white/white pride.’

It isn’t claiming an incredible pride for your achievement of being poor, but expressing a lack of shame for something so often looked down upon.

Mn is so middle class. I agree that it also attracts a lot of aspiring mc people in a way that netmums probably doesnt.

My DH has to give me a reality check every now and then when I feel stressed or upset that we dont have £250k 'at least' in our pensions by mid 30s, or that we no longer have 6 months of bills in savings 'just in case' (we have depleted savings due to mat leave).

We are firmly middle class, from birth to now, but I often feel poor on some of these threads! And yes I know, class and wealth dont always correlate but you get what I mean.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks there is a lot of stigma around being poor. People do look down on you and judge you. And that includes judging you if you have a shit old sofa that you can't afford to replace. So seeing someone buying one chair for £5k will compound those feelings.
I know you probably have never experienced this as you show no understanding of it, but how others treat you matters and poverty does affect how others treat you. Even go to a cafe for a coffee and you will be treated differently if you look middle class rather than poor.

It obviously is in parts. An obvious example is that the various schools/education subfora tend very strongly towards high privilege, e.g. maybe around 50% of the topics on here seem to be about private schools, that's hugely disproprtionate given that c 6% of all UK children attend private school.

Whilst it's probably normal natural that parents who have more choice & who are spending more money will likely devote more time to agonising over school issues, there's screamingly obvious potential for a mum who had a general question to ask about state school related issues to be intimidated/turned off by that kind of imbalance.

A dedicated primate education subforum might not be a bad idea.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary

I'd never say i'm proud of being working class ( and I still maintain that I am WC even when that BBC survey came out as elite)

I would however stay that I'm not embarrassed or ashamed of it. Now living in a very middle class bubble people around me do assume I was born to it so I'm happy to put them right.

Some people I grew up with do everything in their power to hide their working class background ( my sister has admitted to being embarrassed that my parents have stayed living in their very much looked down upon working class town)

Another old school friend of mine who has been very successful in his life lies when asked where he grew up and gives the name of the posher town a few miles away instead. This confused me when at his wedding someone asked me how I knew him and when I replied that we were at school together asked me if I still lived in Poshtown.

@maddy68

Yes. Most people here have large salaries I think (or at least they say they have ).

but "large salary" is also subject to interpretation.

I earn £45k which I think of as a large salary, as its the most I've ever learned, but I know it's less than a lot of people on here, so they wouldn't consider it so.

If I think about it, I am middle class by default because I'm definitely not working g class or upper class. But I'm not sure how to define middle class!

A dedicated primate education subforum might not be a bad idea.

[quote whesl]It obviously is in parts. An obvious example is that the various schools/education subfora tend very strongly towards high privilege, e.g. maybe around 50% of the topics on here seem to be about private schools, that's hugely disproprtionate given that c 6% of all UK children attend private school.

Whilst it's probably normal natural that parents who have more choice & who are spending more money will likely devote more time to agonising over school issues, there's screamingly obvious potential for a mum who had a general question to ask about state school related issues to be intimidated/turned off by that kind of imbalance.

A dedicated primate education subforum might not be a bad idea.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary[/quote]
No plenty of working-class parents agonises over where to send their kids. They just don't expect anyone on MN to have heard of Dunstan Academy. They tend to ask on more local forums or amongst people they know. I would never have posted about this on MN as there are unlikely to be any useful replies.

@EmmaGrundyForPM I agree £45k is a large salary. Not rich, but well above the national average.
But I find rich people tend to have a very warped idea of what rich is.

There's definitely some porkies told on here.

90% of the UK adult population earns under £60k pa. You are in the top ten percent of people if you earn over that.

0.1% earn over £100k. So it's roughly about 650,000 people-ish, and most of those people will be men. Sorry, but it's true.

The quoted poster who said they saved £1400 a month, well, that's a pre-tax earning of what? £18k pa? So you are looking at a couple that can relinquish £18k of their combined gross salary a year into savings.

There are a number of viable ways to do this, in my view. 1) They live off one salary and save the second. 2) They live very cheaply, ie. no mortgage and both earn reasonable salaries. 3) One of them earns a shit load over £100k, and they live cheaply according to their income level.

In truth, very, very few people in the UK could relinquish £18k gross pa a year to savings. It's doable if you both earn average salaries or above, but it would tend to suggest no children and a very frugal way of living and no or small housing costs.

DH and I did it with about £10k to £15k for seven years when we were in our 30s to save for a deposit. We earned over average at the time, and I did shit loads of extra freelance. We had no children, our rent was cheap, and those years were fucking miserable - - to the point where it damaged our marriage and our mental health quite a bit. It was necessary at the time, but it ruined our 30s and those are years we can never get back.

I have a very varied circle of friends and acquaintances across the country and across wealth levels. Out of hundreds of women, from Oxbridge-educated women to the wives of businessmen to doctors to teachers, MPs etc, I only know one woman (30s, no kids) who earns over £100k pa and she works in the City.

@coogee

A dedicated primate education subforum might not be a bad idea.

But are your primates privately educated and Oxbridge aspirants?