Money issue. WWYD?

[IHateThis5hit]

DH and I have been married for 18 years or so. Never had a joint bank account for lots of different reasons. When we were DINKIES this was fine, and we just settled up at the end of a month, splitting costs in proportion to our salaries (so if I earned £30k and him £50k, 37.5/62.5 and so on).

Had DC 10 years ago. I was made redundant and used some of my payout to pay a chunk of a house extension and the rest to live off (DH away a lot with work and so finding a job that fit around DD was not easy). Having DC caused me PTSD and brought some childhood trauma to the surface and I had to spend a fair bit on counselling. I was probably a bit too focussed on DC and wanted “the best” for them, so bought expensive high chairs, complete sets of toys, bed etc for them. Not an issue as I had my nest egg. Once that was gone, however, I started building up debt, eventually admitting to my husband that I had around £10k on a 0% card. Not great, I know, and almost cost me the marriage, but DH forgave and we carried on. With me paying off the debt. (He made me get all the bank statements so that he could work out what should have been split but that never happened.)

I’ve been back at work full time since DC was 3 and paying the debt off slowly.

DH and I recently decided it would be easier to just get a joint account for bills and we would both pay in. I said we should review the split as I’ve just had a promotion but he said it should just be 50/50. (I think it should be more like 45/55.). On top of that it appears he has over £20k stashed (plus a load in crypto) whilst I have no savings at all. I said it was unfair that I was paying back all of the debt myself when a significant portion would have been for us as a family or for DC, whilst he sits on a ton of money. He thinks it’s fair.

He spends barely anything day to day. He works from home in t-shirts that are falling apart because nobody ever sees him. Washes with cheap soap, shaves his own head, buys a new pair of shoes maybe every 3 years.

I on the other hand have had to buy office kit to work on a hybrid since 2020. I’m on zoom calls 90% of the time, have to look presentable. There are a fair number of out of hours events and socials. I use good shampoo and conditioner and have my hair cut and coloured every 3 months. I wear make up pretty much daily and need smart clothes (have lost weight so having to buy new ones, mainly from eBay/Vinted). Use face wash and moisturiser - not the cheapest but not designer, always bought on offer. I commute to work 3 days a week so use fuel that he doesn’t have to use. I do 90% of the life admin and am feeling that this whole thing is very unfair and geared towards making him richer and me poorer. I’m feeling taken advantage of. I know I did wrong in building the debt but I was quite unwell after having DC, needed a year of therapy at £60 a week and I wasn’t buying things for myself. I was at home all week with DC enabling him to work and earn a high salary and yet I’m going to be punished for years while he sits pretty.

So, should we be paying into the joint account in proportion to our incomes? Should any allowance be made for the fact that I need to spend more for work etc than him?

(My pension pot is many many times the size of his, so I could leave this alone until then and see the tables turn, I guess.)

This doesn't really sound like a partnership. Why didn't he use family savings to pay off the 10k straight away, so there would be no interest?

Dinkies?

@Mundra

This doesn't really sound like a partnership. Why didn't he use family savings to pay off the 10k straight away, so there would be no interest?

There’s no interest anyway. It’s on 0% cards.

@AndItDoesntSeemToMatter

Dinkies?

Double Income No Kids Yet.

Sounds like a weird setup for a marriage. Why don't you suggest he dips into his savings to take you on a family holiday - sounds like you could do with it. It's the least he could do after you paid for the extension etc.

Then set up a joint bills account, pay your share into it each month, use it for joint expense (it would be fair to include your fuel for commuting).

Buy your expensive shampoo and hairdresser trips out your own money.

Any expenses for DC should have been shared.
It’s not his fault his job allows him to spend less though.

I think there are a lot of separate things here.

I can understand him finding your secrecy about debt a major issue. I think while it might have been nice if he'd paid it off, it's not obligatory, especially if the relationship was rocky.

I think he definitely should have paid towards things that were bought for the house or the children, but I think you can't expect him to pay 50/50 for things he didn't choose to buy (and, from the sound of his attitude towards money, wouldn't have chosen to buy), such as expensive toys or clothes.

He definitely should have taken into account the work you were doing raising children and doing life admin, and helping him build up his career. To me, this is really the big one.

I think you needing to spend more towards work is a bit of a red herring TBH. No one needs to get their hair cut and coloured every three months 'for work'. I would drop this bit of the argument because it weakens everything else.

Would he be open to couples' therapy to work some of this out? It might be really helpful.

@SapphosRock

Sounds like a weird setup for a marriage. Why don't you suggest he dips into his savings to take you on a family holiday - sounds like you could do with it. It's the least he could do after you paid for the extension etc.

Then set up a joint bills account, pay your share into it each month, use it for joint expense (it would be fair to include your fuel for commuting).

Buy your expensive shampoo and hairdresser trips out your own money.

We do separate holidays. He books ones DC can’t go on. So I book holidays for DC and I.

The extension cost about £50k, so the rest of the cost was shared. My money just paid off the last bit of the bill.

What about the debt? Is that mine or should I push for it to be joint?

Married? Isn't it all yours as a couple? Legally

All DC costs should come out of joint income.

Travel to work costs should come out of joint income, as should work essentials, although you would question why your employer didn't buy these.

The counselling costs should come out of joint income.

Time that you spend looking after DC and house should be recognised, which is hard to quantify.

What you 'need' to spend on hair, make up, clothes etc is also hard to quantify as these things don't necessarily need to be expensive as long as you are clean and reasonably well presented etc. So is also hard to quantify.

Some of his savings could be seen as equivalent to your pension pot, unless he's planning on blowing it all on a sports car age 40, rather than using it to provide an income in later life.

Taking the above into account, you should both have equal opportunities to save and have some spending money, although if you have very different attitudes to money, it will be hard to get the balance right. If he just doesn't spend money on himself, he will build up savings when you might get into debt, even if you have the same personal spending money.

Also taking the above into account, if you feel that a lot of your debt is due to you paying costs that should have been shared, you should be able to use joint or even his money to pay them off, because either he, or the family pot, owes you money that you have spent on joint costs.

My husband spends waaaaay less than me but I also earn more than him. His job is WFH and he never buys any new clothes and uses cheap toiletries. I’m like you and use branded toiletries and get my hair done every 6 weeks.

However we have a joint credit card for all DC expenses and joint family expenses like eating out and we split that. He usually has no clue what’s on it but presumes I spend carefully enough (the kids get quality items).

We split the bills equally because although I earn more, I spend more and I tend to pay for new cars, phones and holidays.

I’m on maternity leave so I’ve used some savings and he has paid for more bills.

The main thing is though that it works for us. You need to find a way for it to work for both of you. Can you increase your income?

He books holidays the DC can't go on? So what do you think about that - is that ok with you?

I don't think you can insist he treats the debt as joint just because you spent it on your children. I was in a similar position with my DP, FWIW, and I can tell you it is utterly infuriating watching someone who is bad with money justifying why they had to spend it on x, y or z when both you and they know it's not true.

@SarahAndQuack

I think there are a lot of separate things here.

I can understand him finding your secrecy about debt a major issue. I think while it might have been nice if he'd paid it off, it's not obligatory, especially if the relationship was rocky.

I think he definitely should have paid towards things that were bought for the house or the children, but I think you can't expect him to pay 50/50 for things he didn't choose to buy (and, from the sound of his attitude towards money, wouldn't have chosen to buy), such as expensive toys or clothes.

He definitely should have taken into account the work you were doing raising children and doing life admin, and helping him build up his career. To me, this is really the big one.

I think you needing to spend more towards work is a bit of a red herring TBH. No one needs to get their hair cut and coloured every three months 'for work'. I would drop this bit of the argument because it weakens everything else.

Would he be open to couples' therapy to work some of this out? It might be really helpful.

We had counselling when the debt stuff came out. He was very fixed minded, blamed me for everything.

He basically outsourced parenting to me. It suited him to just let me do it while he was away. And still tries to. Had no idea what DC would like for Xmas despite WFH for the last 4 years. Never knows where anything is, or what activities they have on what days.

I don’t know what he would have spent money on. When we bought DC an iPad he insisted on a top of the range one rather than the basic one I picked out (several hundreds of £ more - and I had to cover half!).

I think it's odd you are both still debating what's yours and what's his. Down to the T.

You absolutely should be making sure you both have access to savings, income and hopefully both have a pension (why hasn't he got as much as you?)

But... To be worried about a 45/55 split is totally OTT to me. It makes me wonder how much trust there is in the relationship. And power.

Make sure you are both financially secure but don't quibble over small amounts.

Re the debt, well, if it was me and my DP then I think it's fair the person who spends it pays it back UNLESS everyone knew it was being spent at the time. As you rightly say, you could have bought cheaper items. You could also have asked him to buy stuff but you didn't. You chose to spend over your income/savings and i think it's fair you pay that back now you are able. It would be different if you couldn't but it seems you can.

You don’t holiday together????

The parenting outsourcing sounds awful.

It does sound as if he has decided an awful lot of things in your relationship.

I have always had a different approach to money with my dh.
Everything that comes in is family money. There is no his or her money but we do both keep a good eye on our current account balance and can spend what we want without any discussion, within that limitation.

Not everything that contributes to a home is financial and how over a long period would you quantify it? - it would get to the muddle you are in now.

Sometimes I have earned more, sometimes my husband has earned more, sometimes I have been ill, sometimes he has pursued a dream that hasn't come off. Sometimes my skills have helped, sometimes it has been his skills that have made a difference. Overall we are for each other.

I would feel like it was all a bit 'off' too in your situation too.

@Meandmini3

My husband spends waaaaay less than me but I also earn more than him. His job is WFH and he never buys any new clothes and uses cheap toiletries. I’m like you and use branded toiletries and get my hair done every 6 weeks.

However we have a joint credit card for all DC expenses and joint family expenses like eating out and we split that. He usually has no clue what’s on it but presumes I spend carefully enough (the kids get quality items).

We split the bills equally because although I earn more, I spend more and I tend to pay for new cars, phones and holidays.

I’m on maternity leave so I’ve used some savings and he has paid for more bills.

The main thing is though that it works for us. You need to find a way for it to work for both of you. Can you increase your income?

I just have, as per my OP. Have gone from 40/60 split to 45/55 (roughly)

My hair costs £50 every 3 months. It’s not excessive.

We now have a joint account and card so should be easier going forward. It’s the debt/savings and how much we both put in each month.

@SarahAndQuack

He books holidays the DC can't go on? So what do you think about that - is that ok with you?

I don't think you can insist he treats the debt as joint just because you spent it on your children. I was in a similar position with my DP, FWIW, and I can tell you it is utterly infuriating watching someone who is bad with money justifying why they had to spend it on x, y or z when both you and they know it's not true.

He’s a long distance cyclist.

I wouldn’t even call this a marriage, it is unrecognisable to me. You are at least ten years down the line, I don’t know how much more, you have children and you are still splitting things like housemates. He doesn’t have savings and you don’t, half those savings are yours, legally, because you are married. You could both do with reading up on what marriage means!

I was made redundant and used some of my payout to pay a chunk of a house extension and the rest to live off (DH away a lot with work and so finding a job that fit around DD was not easy)

I can feel my blood boiling at your post. Your "D"H was away with work alot, leaving all of the childcare for his children to you, meaning that you couldn't really work. So, he still pulled in a full time salary, whilst using you for free childcare. If you were dead, he would be paying a live in Nanny ££££ to care for his kids when he was away.

If he doesn't see the unfairness in your current set up, ask him how he would feel, if you took a job in say, New York for the next two years, meaning that he would have to quit his job to care for the children, and that you will be keeping your whole salary to yourself, and expecting him to live off benefits.

Your are a family. Generally the parent earning less ends up doing more of the childcare. It's a joint effort. All money should go in to one pot and be shared as a family.

You'd be better off divorcing him, tbh, because as the main caregiver you'd get the largest chunk of family assets, plus he'd have to pay you child maintenance.

We do separate holidays. He books ones DC can’t go on. So I book holidays for DC and I

What did I just read?

On top of that it appears he has over £20k stashed (plus a load in crypto) whilst I have no savings at all. I said it was unfair that I was paying back all of the debt myself when a significant portion would have been for us as a family or for DC, whilst he sits on a ton of money. He thinks it’s fair

Yeah, I bet he does.

I rarely use the word Abuse on MN, as I think it gets bandied around too much. But as a retired Bank Manager, I firmly believe that you are being financially abused. I'm so angry on your behalf.

@FriendshipsAreHardForMe

I think it's odd you are both still debating what's yours and what's his. Down to the T.

You absolutely should be making sure you both have access to savings, income and hopefully both have a pension (why hasn't he got as much as you?)

But... To be worried about a 45/55 split is totally OTT to me. It makes me wonder how much trust there is in the relationship. And power.

Make sure you are both financially secure but don't quibble over small amounts.

Re the debt, well, if it was me and my DP then I think it's fair the person who spends it pays it back UNLESS everyone knew it was being spent at the time. As you rightly say, you could have bought cheaper items. You could also have asked him to buy stuff but you didn't. You chose to spend over your income/savings and i think it's fair you pay that back now you are able. It would be different if you couldn't but it seems you can.

My pensions are public sector. His are private. I pay a huge amount in (defined benefit). He doesn’t.

I paid the deposit for the house as well. (£50k).

He was home for less than 48 hours a week. I was alone with no family or help trying to deal with post-birth issues, PTSD and then the childhood trauma. He was 300 miles away and didn’t know one end of a high chair from the other.

So he books holidays he wants to go on our of his money and you pay for holidays for all of you? His holidays should come out of his money and the family holidays for the children from the joint account. If you wanted to go on holidays that were just for you that should come out of your money

@CharlotteUnaNatalieThompson

So he books holidays he wants to go on our of his money and you pay for holidays for all of you? His holidays should come out of his money and the family holidays for the children from the joint account. If you wanted to go on holidays that were just for you that should come out of your money

Basically, yes.

So what's his is his and what's yours is the family's. He's a wanker