Money issue. WWYD?

[IHateThis5hit]

DH and I have been married for 18 years or so. Never had a joint bank account for lots of different reasons. When we were DINKIES this was fine, and we just settled up at the end of a month, splitting costs in proportion to our salaries (so if I earned £30k and him £50k, 37.5/62.5 and so on).

Had DC 10 years ago. I was made redundant and used some of my payout to pay a chunk of a house extension and the rest to live off (DH away a lot with work and so finding a job that fit around DD was not easy). Having DC caused me PTSD and brought some childhood trauma to the surface and I had to spend a fair bit on counselling. I was probably a bit too focussed on DC and wanted “the best” for them, so bought expensive high chairs, complete sets of toys, bed etc for them. Not an issue as I had my nest egg. Once that was gone, however, I started building up debt, eventually admitting to my husband that I had around £10k on a 0% card. Not great, I know, and almost cost me the marriage, but DH forgave and we carried on. With me paying off the debt. (He made me get all the bank statements so that he could work out what should have been split but that never happened.)

I’ve been back at work full time since DC was 3 and paying the debt off slowly.

DH and I recently decided it would be easier to just get a joint account for bills and we would both pay in. I said we should review the split as I’ve just had a promotion but he said it should just be 50/50. (I think it should be more like 45/55.). On top of that it appears he has over £20k stashed (plus a load in crypto) whilst I have no savings at all. I said it was unfair that I was paying back all of the debt myself when a significant portion would have been for us as a family or for DC, whilst he sits on a ton of money. He thinks it’s fair.

He spends barely anything day to day. He works from home in t-shirts that are falling apart because nobody ever sees him. Washes with cheap soap, shaves his own head, buys a new pair of shoes maybe every 3 years.

I on the other hand have had to buy office kit to work on a hybrid since 2020. I’m on zoom calls 90% of the time, have to look presentable. There are a fair number of out of hours events and socials. I use good shampoo and conditioner and have my hair cut and coloured every 3 months. I wear make up pretty much daily and need smart clothes (have lost weight so having to buy new ones, mainly from eBay/Vinted). Use face wash and moisturiser - not the cheapest but not designer, always bought on offer. I commute to work 3 days a week so use fuel that he doesn’t have to use. I do 90% of the life admin and am feeling that this whole thing is very unfair and geared towards making him richer and me poorer. I’m feeling taken advantage of. I know I did wrong in building the debt but I was quite unwell after having DC, needed a year of therapy at £60 a week and I wasn’t buying things for myself. I was at home all week with DC enabling him to work and earn a high salary and yet I’m going to be punished for years while he sits pretty.

So, should we be paying into the joint account in proportion to our incomes? Should any allowance be made for the fact that I need to spend more for work etc than him?

(My pension pot is many many times the size of his, so I could leave this alone until then and see the tables turn, I guess.)

It sounds like this is less about money and more that you see yourselves as a family and he sees you and DC as bit players in the story of his life. There are some massive financial unfairness issues, but also it sounds like he's doing nothing at home or for DC, you don't go on holiday as a family. Do you ever get any time for yourself? Or is it always up to you to look after DC?

It sounds like a good chunk of the debt was paying for counselling (and you had PTSD, it was healthcare, presumably if he had had some terrible illness and paid for treatment that wouldn't just have come out of his savings?) and the work on the house. Which all should have been a joint expense and, additionally, you would presumably have been able to afford anyway had you not paid 50k deposit and 50k for the extension and had he not prevented you from going back to work by effing off?

It sounds like he's used your guilt about the debt (and reading between the lines, possibly your PTSD) to manipulate the financials and home setup to be entirely to his benefit.

I'm not sure there's a way back from this for you (if I've understood everything correctly), but at the very least I'd say you need some serious marriage counselling.

@LalalalalalaLand123

I wouldn’t even call this a marriage, it is unrecognisable to me.

This. Your H seems to hate you, OP - he treats you like a skivvy, makes you do all the life admin and bulk of parenting, expects you to take on a load of family/DC/medical (mental health) costs all by yourself, while he squirrels away vast savings and spends huge amounts of money on himself. How you got to this point, I have no idea - but if I were you, I would not put up with this for one second longer. This is not a relationship, partnership or marriage in any sense of the words as I understand them.

This. He sounds like an awful, awful man. You sound worn down by it all.

Divorce him. They'll award you a huge chunk of 'his' savings, which isn't really his.

He's a twat, an abusive, selfish twat.

It's NOT ok for you to have to fund yourself AND the children for everything, including holidays, while he swans off on his own holidays and hoards his money for himself.

It's also NOT ok for you to have used your savings to pay for the joint house debts while he again, hoards his money to himself.

Especially since he makes more, he didn't take time out to give birth, he didn't suffer the PTSD affect of giving birth, he didn't have to find a PT job around the children since he clearly wasn't stepping up to do any of it so you had to.

WTF do you see in the arsehole?

I'd get legal advice

If the house is in joint names be sure there's a clause that gives you proportionate repayment for the extra money you put in.

@Offmyfence

More than money is a problem here!

He goes on holiday on his own!

How much does that cost?

Going on holiday alone isnt an issue. Lots of people do that

@Zombiemum1946

If the house is in joint names be sure there's a clause that gives you proportionate repayment for the extra money you put in.

Too late

While this works for some people, it's also partially why you're in the situation you're in. You both have individual accounts, savings and pensions which means you both see your money as yours, not something to be shared

Absolutely this.

We’ve swung around with earnings over the years but always split whatever’s left after we’ve paid all outgoings and put savings away.

We combine all our money. All into one pot. I never understand the this is yours this is mine in a marriage. Insist he helps get the debt down faster. He could put £5 off and that would be a huge help to you. Make sure everything is 50/50 going forward if you won’t combine money.

Oh wow...
I can't believe your "D"H! Agree with PP that "his" savings are actually joint legally - maybe you should point this out to him.

We have a joint account which both of our salaries go into, minus some "pocket money" which goes into our private accounts. So we both have the same amount for personal stuff (eg haircuts, clothes, coffee out, fun stuff for ourselves).

We have a baby now and anything for her comes out of the joint account. We have a rough rule that anything over £20ish gets discussed, although I've just bought her some new vests in this and the next size up from asda for £22 lol...

V simple - you are 100% responsible for the debt incurred while you were on maternity leave/SAHP. Fine. In which case, retrospectly bill him for half of what 24/7 childcare would have cost during that period. Also, accepting that you overspent on kids stuff, bill him retrospectively for 1/3 of all child-related purchases on the basis that he should have been paying half all along.

It's not clear how food/rent/bills were paid while he was working away and you were a SAHP, but if you were paying for that on credit cards and/or from your redundancy pay, then add 50% of those costs to that bill.

Similarly, for the house - you paid a £50k deposit AND more of the cost of renovations? Obviously, add 50% of all that to your bill.

He can then transfer all that to you and you will have increased your savings.

Job done.

wanker.

What do you want to happen going forward OP

If you divorce you will get half ‘his’ savings to pay off ‘your’ credit card and you can keep your pension.

You don’t sound very happy with things as they are at the moment.

He sounds like a right bastard.

If he wants to be so penny-pinching about money then play him at his own game.

You paid the majority of the house deposit. You paid a huge chunk off the extension. You took a part time job to care for his children while he was away working. If he wants to be petty about money then it's clear that he owes you tens of thousands of pounds.

Unfortunately it looks like he believes his earnings are his alone, and your earnings are for the family. These financially abusive men are all the same.

I'd divorce him and take the majority of his savings in a settlement to support the kids. You'd get more from a divorce than you would for living with him.

You paid the majority of the house deposit. You paid a huge chunk off the extension. You took a part time job to care for his children while he was away working. If he wants to be petty about money then it's clear that he owes you tens of thousands of pounds.

This

Oh, and on my list of things he owes you, obviously the kids getting a holiday is important, even if he doesn't attend, so I'd be adding half of the cost of every holiday you've taken without him to that bill you're sending him.

I personally think kids. House egc. Should be joint. Anything individual. Like clothes. Hair etc should be paid for by yourselves.

Savings should be the same.

"Long distance cyclist" - three words guaranteed to make a vagina dryer than the Sahara.

Get a good solicitor and divorce him. You'll be better off in more ways than one. There have so far been no pros to you staying married to this man. Or indeed, for your child.

I’ll try and answer several posters’ questions here rather than separately:

A lot of this is linked to my childhood trauma, which has left me needing absolute independence. I find it hard to commit/trust others as I fear abandonment. Unfortunately my therapy was only partly successful, because when I tried to address this with those involved (who are still in my life) they shut me down and refused to speak about it. I’m still working through it on my own but it’s hard and is taking a long time.

I did love (or whatever it is that I’m able to allow myself to feel for another person) DH. I think I was playing a role, to an extent - marriage is what everyone did so I did it too. It was never emotionally important to me. That may sound cold but it’s part of my protective mechanisms derived from childhood.

The cycling thing is pretty new but we have always had very separate interests.

His ex-girlfriend warned him that I was only after his money. I was furious and determined to prove that wrong to him, hence being absolutely against any joint accounts for more than 2 decades. I have worked full time since I was 15, bar 3 years out with DC. I had more money than DH when we met. (I bought a house at 20 on my own.). I’ve set myself up to never need another person ever. DIY - I do it. Car maintenance - I do it. I think that may be what DH found attractive to begin with.

DH persuaded me to have DC. I wouldn’t be without them now, but my god it took its toll on me. And then doing it on my own most of the time the resentment started. And that’s how it’s been for me for all that time. But because of my experiences, I want DC to have a fantastic childhood with lots of opportunities for fun. So I focused on that, not me. (Also common theme with childhood trauma.)

DH has accused me of being cold and distant at times, and seems to have run out of patience when I haven’t “fixed” what’s wrong with me. The childhood trauma that has shaped my entire life is nothing but an excuse in his mind. And I’m not doing enough about it. I’m never doing enough about it.

I do think he’s punishing me with the debt. There’s about £7k left to pay off. I should be able to throw more money at it now I’m earning more.

He’s not afraid of divorce. I’m sure everything is locked away where I can’t get it.

He's got it good and he knows it. You've been made a mug of. I'd say 50/50 on everything now or bye bye!

Two words: forensic accountant.

Get legal advice and tell them you're sure he's hiding money.

He’s not afraid of divorce. I’m sure everything is locked away where I can’t get it.

Half of what he has is yours. If you divorce he will have to legally disclose everything he owns and it will be split fairly.

While you still have access, get copies of his bank accounts, savings, crypto holdings etc. And store them in a secure place offsite/ on the cloud. This will be very useful when / if he lies about his financial position during the divorce.

Hyper independence is a trauma response. Your husband has exploited that to feather his nest while leaving you to do the majority of the financial heavy lifting for the family. He is a shitbag.

Do you even like him OP? It sounds as if your marriage is over

This is definitely not fair on you @IHateThis5hit. If you don't get it sorted fairly, your marriage is doomed.

@FlowerFlour

He’s not afraid of divorce. I’m sure everything is locked away where I can’t get it.

Half of what he has is yours. If you divorce he will have to legally disclose everything he owns and it will be split fairly.

While you still have access, get copies of his bank accounts, savings, crypto holdings etc. And store them in a secure place offsite/ on the cloud. This will be very useful when / if he lies about his financial position during the divorce.

Hyper independence is a trauma response. Your husband has exploited that to feather his nest while leaving you to do the majority of the financial heavy lifting for the family. He is a shitbag.

I don’t have any access to his accounts, nor he to mine.

Hang on!

You paid £50K deposit and £50K on the extension and mostly half of all the bills even when you weren’t working AND you have dept the pay off?

Where’s his half of the £100K? Get that back pay off your debt and keep the rest