Money issue. WWYD?

[IHateThis5hit]

DH and I have been married for 18 years or so. Never had a joint bank account for lots of different reasons. When we were DINKIES this was fine, and we just settled up at the end of a month, splitting costs in proportion to our salaries (so if I earned £30k and him £50k, 37.5/62.5 and so on).

Had DC 10 years ago. I was made redundant and used some of my payout to pay a chunk of a house extension and the rest to live off (DH away a lot with work and so finding a job that fit around DD was not easy). Having DC caused me PTSD and brought some childhood trauma to the surface and I had to spend a fair bit on counselling. I was probably a bit too focussed on DC and wanted “the best” for them, so bought expensive high chairs, complete sets of toys, bed etc for them. Not an issue as I had my nest egg. Once that was gone, however, I started building up debt, eventually admitting to my husband that I had around £10k on a 0% card. Not great, I know, and almost cost me the marriage, but DH forgave and we carried on. With me paying off the debt. (He made me get all the bank statements so that he could work out what should have been split but that never happened.)

I’ve been back at work full time since DC was 3 and paying the debt off slowly.

DH and I recently decided it would be easier to just get a joint account for bills and we would both pay in. I said we should review the split as I’ve just had a promotion but he said it should just be 50/50. (I think it should be more like 45/55.). On top of that it appears he has over £20k stashed (plus a load in crypto) whilst I have no savings at all. I said it was unfair that I was paying back all of the debt myself when a significant portion would have been for us as a family or for DC, whilst he sits on a ton of money. He thinks it’s fair.

He spends barely anything day to day. He works from home in t-shirts that are falling apart because nobody ever sees him. Washes with cheap soap, shaves his own head, buys a new pair of shoes maybe every 3 years.

I on the other hand have had to buy office kit to work on a hybrid since 2020. I’m on zoom calls 90% of the time, have to look presentable. There are a fair number of out of hours events and socials. I use good shampoo and conditioner and have my hair cut and coloured every 3 months. I wear make up pretty much daily and need smart clothes (have lost weight so having to buy new ones, mainly from eBay/Vinted). Use face wash and moisturiser - not the cheapest but not designer, always bought on offer. I commute to work 3 days a week so use fuel that he doesn’t have to use. I do 90% of the life admin and am feeling that this whole thing is very unfair and geared towards making him richer and me poorer. I’m feeling taken advantage of. I know I did wrong in building the debt but I was quite unwell after having DC, needed a year of therapy at £60 a week and I wasn’t buying things for myself. I was at home all week with DC enabling him to work and earn a high salary and yet I’m going to be punished for years while he sits pretty.

So, should we be paying into the joint account in proportion to our incomes? Should any allowance be made for the fact that I need to spend more for work etc than him?

(My pension pot is many many times the size of his, so I could leave this alone until then and see the tables turn, I guess.)

This is crazy.

Go back over all the big expenses and work out what you have each spent. He should have paid for most of the extension as you weren't earning. You should not have used your savings on that. He should also pay towards holidays for his child.

I’m so sorry OP. Sounds like you’re in a real mess, and going 40/60 or 45/55 is the least of it.

It doesn’t sound like it’s about money at all, to me. You’re both comfortable, separately and jointly.

This is about trust.

For whatever reasons, you fundamentally don’t trust him and he knows it. No criticism or judgement, just an observation.

And after nearly 20 years together, he’s living his life separately from you, and you’re living your life separately from him. Where you overlap is the child, and that’s where you’re coming unstuck (isn’t always DC…).

Park, for now, whether it should be 40/60 or 45/55. Address your issues head on. Resolve them and move together as a family - the money thing will fall into place. Right now, you’re not a family. You’re a collection of cohabiting individuals.

So sorry you feel this way.

@BluebellsGreenbells

Hang on!

You paid £50K deposit and £50K on the extension and mostly half of all the bills even when you weren’t working AND you have dept the pay off?

Where’s his half of the £100K? Get that back pay off your debt and keep the rest

No.

£50k deposit, yes.

Extension cost £50k total. £40k we had saved between us for the work. It overran and we upgraded some things which was another £10k. I paid that from my redundancy settlement.

@WallaceinAnderland

This is crazy.

Go back over all the big expenses and work out what you have each spent. He should have paid for most of the extension as you weren't earning. You should not have used your savings on that. He should also pay towards holidays for his child.

I was earning when the extension was being built. It overran and cost more than expected, which I ended up paying.

Fine to have separate money and pay all bills 50:50... but then the housework and childcare have to be split down the middle too.

DH persuaded me to have DC. I wouldn’t be without them now, but my god it took its toll on me. And then doing it on my own most of the time the resentment started.

This is where the problem is. He can't expect you to pay half the bills and then dump his share of the childcare on you also. If he expected you to continue paying half the bills during mat leave, he should have done half the childcare during that time.

For that reason, I think he should pay off the debt in full (in lieu of you having done all his childcare during that time).

And sort out the division of labour going fwd - if he insists on 50:50 bill split, you'll be expecting him divide up all the household chores equally (incl mental load), and do half the childcare.

£40k we had saved between us for the work. It overran and we upgraded some things which was another £10k. I paid that from my redundancy settlement.

Why?

@WallaceinAnderland

£40k we had saved between us for the work. It overran and we upgraded some things which was another £10k. I paid that from my redundancy settlement.

Why?

Well why not?

In a normally functioning relationship, this makes sense. I agree in this relationship OP is being taken advantage of.

I also note from OP's posts that she chose to be very financially separate from DH. I'm not excusing his behaviour, at all, but it seems like the marriage never started on an even footing, of trust & honesty.

Then he owes you £5K form the extension and £25K from the deposit.

It’s nothing compared to £7K you owe

Hmm ok try and break this down
You and dh are married he works away you have 1 10yr old child, 10 years ago you lost your job and received a large chunk of money you paid of the last part of the house extension what was the last amount how much did he pay vs you?
The 3 years you raised your child not working who paid for mortgage and bills?
How much of the debt was build from buying overpriced stuff you didn't need vs expenses you did need, you say he never spends and has saved 20k plus mined for bitcoin, but to ave he has never wasted money on himself until he started this new hobbie is no new clothes or expensive items, you however like the finer things and spend most of you income on yourself?
What is your current income difference? And also you have a huge pension where as he has savings that counter your huge pension so in later life you would be well of and him not so, on other issues sound like you need alot more therapy to get though your issues and unfortunately only you can help yourself on that front however I would also say he should fully support you getting more help in whatever way is needed

OP coming back to this thread to say I think you need to take some time out to think about what you want long term and how you are going to achieve this. You don't seem to love your DH, he doesn't seem to respect or appreciate you, and I'm not sure about what you think if you were to have sole custody for your children. In a nutshell, do you want a relationship of convenience with this man and accept some of the financial inequalities or do you want to go it alone, with or without your children?

Regardless of what happens between you, it seems counselling needs to restart and continue. Having a neutral person to talk to can make a huge difference. I'm not sure when would be a good time for you both to decide on your future, but there needs to be some sort of truce called that enables a clearer picture of responsibility for dc and understanding of needs and not just financial.

I on the other hand have had to buy office kit to work on a hybrid since 2020. I’m on zoom calls 90% of the time, have to look presentable. There are a fair number of out of hours events and socials. I use good shampoo and conditioner and have my hair cut and coloured every 3 months. I wear make up pretty much daily and need smart clothes (have lost weight so having to buy new ones, mainly from eBay/Vinted). Use face wash and moisturiser - not the cheapest but not designer, always bought on offer

This makes me sad, that you feel you need to justify your purchases in this way. I was financially abused by my exH and this was exactly how I felt, I would also justify spending on the DC and on myself whilst he had no money worries. Now I am out of the situation I realise just how very sad it was to feel like that about wanting nice things that I could afford to buy. Please, please think about leaving this awful situation behind.

I agree entirely with @BlondeDogLady: I rarely use the word Abuse on MN, as I think it gets bandied around too much. But as a retired Bank Manager, I firmly believe that you are being financially abused. I'm so angry on your behalf

The court will soon get to the bottom of his sole accounts don't worry about that. All monies (and debts) are assets of the marriage and will most likely to be split in your favor as you will be the full time parent. You may receive 60% or 70% of the value of the marital home for example, were you to divorce. However you will both need to disclose the value of your respective pensions and there may be some pension sharing required, so food for thought there too. I have no idea why you remain married to this man OP, he sounds awful and you and DC deserve so much better

I’m not sure I’d be the full time parent if we split now. He doesn’t work away anymore.

He seems to be keeping track of every penny he’s putting into your lives, so why not put together and Excel doc of your own and work out the same? If you put £50k into the extension and the rest was split between the two of you, then you put £50k more into it.
Write a list of your responsibilities and how much that would cost to outsource.
He’s forgetting that your value isn’t just in the money you earn and contribute, but also in the amount of time you put into your lives. That includes:
Childcare
Cleaning
Personal assistant/life admin - managing timetables, paperwork, remembering important dates, preparing for events etc

It’s hard to argue with hard figures if he can see your contribution v’s his in numbers.

What are his good bit? Because I'm struggling to see any.

He is utterly detatched from family life. Has no interest in his child. doesn't go on holidays with you or his child. Doesn't think he should pay anything for the necessary equipment for a baby. Thinks spending 48 hours a week at home is just fine with a newborn and if his wife gets overwhelmed and spends more than she wants, then isn't that a lovely stick to beat her with forever after (AND he doesn't have to pay anything WIN for him).

@IHateThis5hit

I’m not sure I’d be the full time parent if we split now. He doesn’t work away anymore.

@IHateThis5hit reading through all your posts I feel quite sad for you that you've had to be so independent. Its another expense but I'd suggest more counselling to help work out what you want to do now. What started as a Q about sorting your finances seems to have become how you'd manage if you split. Is that what you want? Or are you wanting to get your relationship in a better place? And/or couples counselling to try to help you to get there together. NB if you do split don't stress about knowing where his stuff is - he is legally obligated to declare all of it - if he doesn't that is a offence and would be a very stupid thing to do.

Remember, OP, that the courts view the contribution of a working parent as the same as the contribution of a parent doing childcare/homemaking. The latter isn't some "lesser" contribution, and the former doesn't get to "keep" all the money they make while the other partner is not in paid work.

I am sorry OP. What a position to be in. Your husband has not had to deal with any impact of having children but you have taken the brunt of everything, the daily grind, the mental load, the permanent impact to your career and all future earnings capacity and the impact to your mental health meanwhile he has allowed you to spend your redundancy on living costs, the extension, the kids and family holidays. And this is something he wanted.. you had to be talked into ... and that’s not to mention the cost to your mental health!

Maybe say.. OK buster... let’s lay this all out... where is your half of the deposit for our house? I paid the overspend on the extension, give me half of that. I took 3 years off to have the kids... give me a year and half of your salary. Having kids will have in average a 7.5% reduction on my annual salary every year... let’s set up a monthly transfer from your account to mine. I take the kids on holiday... you can pay me half of the cost plus £2,000 per week which is what it would cost you if you were to pay someone to look after them 24/7 while you go cycling. I suffered PTSD from the birth of our children, you are liable for 75% of the costs associated with that as having children was never a risk to you.. I’ve looked this up... could be between 50 and 80k depending on whether there is injury as well... let’s call it £40k.. I’m being generous.

And now that we are 50/50... you can be responsible for dentists, football and school communications, I will do doctors, music and friends. You can buy and organize birthdays.. I will do Christmas but happy to swap if you prefer. I will buy and cook food for Monday through Thursday lunch time, you can do Thursday PM until Sunday. You can arrange weekend activities and I will do annual holidays. I will do whites washing, towels and bedding, you can do colours.

There are so many things going on in this thread it's making my head spin.

First of all - do you love and trust DH? Does DH love and trust you?

So first of all it would be helpful to know how much you and your DH both earn separately?

What are your monthly outgoings as a household?
-normal bills - electric, water, internet, phones etc
-Food & drink
-savings for family activities e.g. days out; holidays

• other expenditure - forget the bollocks of he wears cheap T shirts / I wear office suits - you are a family - as long as no one is really taking the piss buying expensive shit (sounds like you aren't); it should come out of the joint account
• Add all this up - divide according to how much you both earn. My husband earns nearly 4 times the amount of what i earn so, he put that into the joint account.

Joint accounts are all about taking out the hassle of the day to day bills and life admin

Anything left over can be in your own separate savings.

You need to deal with the big expenditures separately.
You should be a team.
You fucked up with the debt but as you said you were going through a lot of shit at the time - your DH needs to understand and acknowledge this.
You also has put a lot of money into your home and your family.

To be frank, depending on your household financial situation, I am not sure if the £10k is just a drop in the ocean for your DH to help you pay off or it's years' worth of saving. Your DH sounds mean.

Personally I have never understood this separate finances business with your partner. All money earned I feel should go in the same pot for both partners to use.

Surely hobby related expenses including his private holidays should come out of his own account. Family holidays would come out of the joint account. Work clothes and travel are joint, while leisure expenses that don't include kids are personal.

I'm not saying that I agree with splitting family finances, but what is the point of keeping your own money aside if your not in control of 'luxury' spending?

@IHateThis5hit

He’s in IT. It’s completely bolted down. There’s about £50k worth in there, I think. (Mines not purchased so cashing out is subject to tax.)

Its not about security, its for your own protection. Unless it is in a multisig, he can just swan off with it if you divorce.

Sorry to say but I think he was rubbing his hands together when you first met and you told him how competent you are and how you manage your own money,it made it easier for him to financially abuse you.
He has taken advantage.

Been there ,lived it too, with someone who sounds very similar.
I lost my Lifetime savings ,my career,my sanity and my home before i realised who was causing it all.

What a bizarre setup...