To wonder why more people don't adopt?

[adoptionthoughts]

Recently I've started thinking maybe adoption is a route for me. I've always said I wouldn't do it but recently I'm having a change of heart as I think about it and logically it makes a lot of sense for a variety of reasons.

I'm struggling TTC, but this is something I'm thinking about irrespective of whether or not I eventually manage to have biological kids.

I also think giving a child a life they may not have otherwise had is a really nice thing. Also, why add to a climate change problem when there are so so many children I wanted across the world - the more I think about it the more logically adoption makes lots of sense. It means you don't get the physical problems from childbirth, it means you are providing a life for a child that may have been in foster care and many other positives.

Am I being naive? Why does hardly anyone do it? Why are we only happy with children if it's related to us by blood? I'm not trying to be funny here I'm genuinely asking to see why to see if I'm crazy to consider it.

I appreciate the children up for adoption often come from trauma often, which is concerning in terms of how that trauma may play out in later life but I'd likely want a very small baby (not saying this eradicates this but I think is reducing the risk). And also, the same can happen with biological kids you never know how they will turn out.

I'd like to hear from not just those that have adopted but also those that haven't and wouldn't as to why?

@LovePoppy @ineedsun I am an adoptee and I agreed with the posts of your which I read. I think that it is the posters who listen least who would benefit from listening most!

lovepoppy I saw your comments about generalising and you are right, this is increasingly recognised by clinical psychologists. There is a tendency in adoption to lump adoptees into one amorphous mass, and say things like "all our [adopted] children steal" "all our [adopted] children lie" "all our [adopted] children have problems with object permanence" (!). The reality is in fact that the term "neglect and abuse" is a wide umbrella term and the experiences of adoptees will vary hugely, both to do with what they experience and how they experience it. It is recognised how important it is to clinically "personalise" for each child. There has also been a tendency to be too linear in the past ie to tie all problems back to early life experiences and this is not correct either. Much of the training and parenting methods and ideas are out of date and not evidence based (and some are going to actually be the cause of behavioural problems. I think making changes to allow for this will change outcomes for adopted children. It will also hopefully change attitudes towards adopted children and adults.

More research has been promised about this and about all things adoption, who knows when that will happen but it has been recognised that a great deal of adoption practice in the UK is not research based which is pretty appalling really.

[quote sunshineandskyscrapers]@jannt86
That's absolute bollocks about open vs closed adoptions.
Thank you. That's what I was hinting at.

@sweetbellyhigh you're not even using the terminology correctly, and if I understand correctly you have no first hand experience of adoption?[/quote]
I haven't read all the comments (sorry I know that is annoying) but basically the research indicates that there should be far more direct contact between adoptees and birth family (ie not all, but many more than is currently happening) but it does need to be professionally assessed and managed. Even where birth families have been flakey in the past it may well be of benefit if managed properly. There are changes afoot here resulting from feedback from adoptees, adopters, professionals who have been around adoption for many years. I do think that this is a subject which needs to be discussed more.

sweetbellyhigh has said that closed adoptions are to benefit adoptive parents and indeed there is judicial statement from 2013 or thereabouts to this effect - ie judges have publicly stated that policies around direct contact for a long time was to do with what adopters wanted or were willing to do. Judges recognised that there was little point forcing something on adopters which adopters would not be willing to facilitate as this would not be of benefit to the child. This attitude is changing amongst adopters and if you google you will find articles by psychologists and other professionals involved talking about how to manage and how to mitigate adopter concerns.

My concern is that changes are being brought in but without the necessary supports, guidance and management and that is a recipe for disaster for the children involved.

Predictably ignorant and rude responses.

Have you done an investigative report into adoption? Have you interviewed adoptees, adoptive parents, birth parents, the children commissioner, child psychologists and studied outcomes?

I have.

Because its not the fairytale people think it is.
Just to be approved to adopt there's hundreds of hoops to jump through. When we dabbled with the idea we were informed by a senior SW friend that we'd be denied on multiple grounds, the ages of our children, planning on moving, DHs previous mental health issues.

The way the social care system works means that you're not adopting a 1 year old and raising them as yours and yours alone you're adopting a 5 or 6 year old, who still keeps in contact with biological parents despite thd abuse they've suffered.

Being aware of this and not wanting to adopt because you KNOW you wouldnt find it easy is not proof that one has no emotional intelligence as i was told a few pages back. The opposite is true. Nobody should have children / adopt children if they know in advance they dont want that experience

@Nat6999

My friend adopted 2 siblings in her second marriage after she couldn't have any more children herself & her new husband wanted children. Her husband then announced he didn't love her & left. She is left bringing up two children both with significant disabilities at an age when her birth children are both grown up & having children of their own. While she loves them had she known how much the disabilities & trauma from their birth parents have affected them she says she wouldn't do it if she had her time again.

This is awful - but isn't the first time I've heard of it happening.

Men in general seem to find it much easier to walk a way from their children, even where they are biologically the father - I can imagine that the lack of a biological connection, added to "difficult" children would make this even more likely if he was hat sort of bloke.

I hope she is getting financial support from him, even if nothing else.

@sweetbellyhigh

I notice you didn't respond to my question

Do you think that if Arthur or Star had survived the actions of their parents, it would have been beneficial to them to have had ongoing contact with their abusers ?

Please don't try and argue that if those children had survived and been adopted that a closed adoption would be serving the interests of adopters.
I agreed to direct contact for my son with his dad and brother because I believed it to be in his best interests. Despite support dad cannot maintain contact and the continued rejection and disappointment has been very damaging to him. At 17 he has decided not to pursue contact with either birth parent, his decision.
We still see his brother who is now in residential care, that is also not without stress

The way the social care system works means that you're not adopting a 1 year old and raising them as yours and yours alone you're adopting a 5 or 6 year old, who still keeps in contact with biological parents despite thd abuse they've suffered.

again more misinformation
I know many people who have adopted babies and pre-schoolers. I don't know anyone who has direct contact with birth family, apart from myself

This thread has so much misinformation and downright rubbish in it.

Adoption is not about providing children for families. It's about providing families for children who have a variety of needs arising from their birth family experiences. These children require parents who will fit their lives around them as necessary.

Children awaiting or who have been adopted are not damaged goods or a consolation prize.

My son has a range of complexities due to his birth family experiences. He is my world. He is perfect and I am so happy. Is it hard work ? - YES blooming hard work, but he brings so much joy and laughter into my life.

If anyone is considering Adoption contact Local Authorities, Voluntary Adoption Agencies and they will tell you appropriate information. There's so much misinformation online and in newspapers.

sweetbellyhigh I'm almost in awe of your staggering arrogance and apparently genuine belief that the fact you have 'done an investigative report' makes you some kind of expert... (I'm hoping you mean for A level Media Studies to be honest).

The people who you are calling 'ignorant and rude' haven't interviewed adopters and adoptees, they ARE adopters and adoptees.... They may well also be child psychologists or work professionally in other areas of paediatric health, in my experience the overlap is quite common, for obvious reasons.

It's a lovely and I'm sure a very rewarding thing to do but it's hard. Getting through the process is difficult and then once you have a child/children it can be even harder. Past trauma can cause massive issues around attachment and behaviour and even if adopted from birth some children are born addicted or with FAS.

I really admire adopters but I don't think I could do it. My family member who worked for SS really put me off the idea when I was considering it.

OP I have not read all the comments. I am a birth mum and a mum to a child by adoption. I love them both equally. flapjackfairy I loved reading your post and totally agree with you.

It's not for everyone. The reason we adopted was because we could not have any more children after one, despite extensive IVF etc.

The desire to parent a child is a very good reason to adopt and I would not be without my lovely adopted child, or my lovely birth child. Love them both.

Oh, I also did think about adoption for about 20 years before hand, I really did want to adopt.

It was not a spur of the moment thing.

But, if I am honest, maybe if I had been able to easily have kids I may never have gone down the adoption route.

I hope I would, as I do think it can be a brilliant thing to do, but being honest, my desire for another child was the main driver.

[quote Ted27]@sweetbellyhigh

I notice you didn't respond to my question

Do you think that if Arthur or Star had survived the actions of their parents, it would have been beneficial to them to have had ongoing contact with their abusers ?

Please don't try and argue that if those children had survived and been adopted that a closed adoption would be serving the interests of adopters.
I agreed to direct contact for my son with his dad and brother because I believed it to be in his best interests. Despite support dad cannot maintain contact and the continued rejection and disappointment has been very damaging to him. At 17 he has decided not to pursue contact with either birth parent, his decision.
We still see his brother who is now in residential care, that is also not without stress[/quote]
ted27 I can answer that for you. The recommendations about direct contact are that it should be assessed on a case by case basis. The stories about Arthur and Star were absolutely horrific, the violence by the parent involved for each and the step parent. However they are not the majority, in the majority of cases the birth parents are not dangerous or violent, many children who are adopted are removed at risk of harm - ie as babies - from parents who are addicts/have mental health problems/have learning difficulties. In many, many cases it would be appropriate and in the research you will see many success stories. It is not helpful to drag the most awful situations up every time direct contact is referred to. You will also remember that an adopter has been found guilty of abusing and murdering their adopted toddler - dragging this up to suggest all adopters should be considered dangerous is not helpful either. Doing proper studies about the triggers for parents who do this would be a good idea.

Also to answer a question upthread - what if the child does not want contact. Obviously that is very relevant. Many children who do not have contact ask is they can see birth parents, and this is relevant too. A re-think is needed, and a first step is that adopters are encouraged to read the research and studies done in the UK about direct contact.

@stilltiredinthemorning

sweetbellyhigh I'm almost in awe of your staggering arrogance and apparently genuine belief that the fact you have 'done an investigative report' makes you some kind of expert... (I'm hoping you mean for A level Media Studies to be honest).

The people who you are calling 'ignorant and rude' haven't interviewed adopters and adoptees, they ARE adopters and adoptees.... They may well also be child psychologists or work professionally in other areas of paediatric health, in my experience the overlap is quite common, for obvious reasons.

This isn't correct stilltired as I have explained in my posts upthread. Change to how direct contact is done has been mooted by many adult adoptees and adopters. Some are for it, some against; some have experience of it others not. I have read articles recently by psychologists in support of direct contact and about how to address the concerns some adopters have. It is a complex and tricky subject but a first step is that more people read the bonafied research which has been done I think.

@snottyhotty

As one of the few adopters who has struggled to maintain direct contact over 10 years to the detriment of my personal
mental health, and to be honest no real benefit to my son, except constant disappointment and rejection, not to mention horrendous verbal abuse from his brother, I really don't need lectures about contact

[quote Ted27]@snottyhotty

As one of the few adopters who has struggled to maintain direct contact over 10 years to the detriment of my personal
mental health, and to be honest no real benefit to my son, except constant disappointment and rejection, not to mention horrendous verbal abuse from his brother, I really don't need lectures about contact[/quote]
You say I lectured, when I answered the question you asked, twice? Totally out of order response.

*bonafide

But it’s not really up to me to facilitate contact is it? I mean I write letters to which I don’t even get confirmation that they’ve been received and I certainly never get a reply. I’m not being funny I’m sure contact is maybe in the best interests of our children, but you’re blaming adopters when really it’s not in our control!

I can read all the research in the world but I can’t magic a social worker who is supportive. I’ve had my fair share and they couldn’t help I’m sure!!!

the question wasn't addressed to you @snottyhotty but to a poster who has taken a particular stance

@ted27 and that excuses your response to me? I am sorry about your experience, but I did also say in my post above that contact can be disastrous if not managed properly. Some adopters can manage it fine, but where things are difficult, as for you, there should be proper guidance and support and professional input. I sympathise with you and your ac and with the child in residential care. There are two things here - what is best for you and your family, and what research says about the benefits long term for adopteesand what is needed to achieve it.

Ted27 Another one here who has direct contact with our daughter's birth parents. They are excellent parents to our AD's sister but had courage to say they were not able to parent their 2nd daughter due to her complex needs.The contact is for their benefit, our daughter sadly has no concept.

@Notmenotme

But it’s not really up to me to facilitate contact is it? I mean I write letters to which I don’t even get confirmation that they’ve been received and I certainly never get a reply. I’m not being funny I’m sure contact is maybe in the best interests of our children, but you’re blaming adopters when really it’s not in our control!

I can read all the research in the world but I can’t magic a social worker who is supportive. I’ve had my fair share and they couldn’t help I’m sure!!!

I agree that blaming adopters as a group is not helpful at all. There was thinking awhile back that a clean slate would be best for adoptees good - this wasn't backed up by research, but it isn't the adopters fault that this was the expectation they were given.

I don't think it should be SWs who provide the support, I think we need more psychologists who have specialised in the area.

snottyhotty I wasn't arguing the point regarding contact. I was just outraged by someone who had no direct experience of adoption or fostering rudely dismissing the views of those who had. I was gobsmacked that they felt their 'investigative report' made their own opinion more valid.

It was the:
*Have you done an investigative report into adoption? Have you interviewed adoptees, adoptive parents, birth parents, the children commissioner, child psychologists and studied outcomes?

I have.*

comment I was objecting to.

In all honesty, my DH and I wouldn’t have adopted if I hadn’t been infertile either. But I now can’t imagine my life without our 2 DDs, despite the challenges we’ve faced over the years.

But it really has been challenging, I don’t want to downplay that in any way, and you need to be sure that it really is what you want to do. That’s why Social Services adoption assessments are so rigorous and rightly so.