To wonder why more people don't adopt?

[adoptionthoughts]

Recently I've started thinking maybe adoption is a route for me. I've always said I wouldn't do it but recently I'm having a change of heart as I think about it and logically it makes a lot of sense for a variety of reasons.

I'm struggling TTC, but this is something I'm thinking about irrespective of whether or not I eventually manage to have biological kids.

I also think giving a child a life they may not have otherwise had is a really nice thing. Also, why add to a climate change problem when there are so so many children I wanted across the world - the more I think about it the more logically adoption makes lots of sense. It means you don't get the physical problems from childbirth, it means you are providing a life for a child that may have been in foster care and many other positives.

Am I being naive? Why does hardly anyone do it? Why are we only happy with children if it's related to us by blood? I'm not trying to be funny here I'm genuinely asking to see why to see if I'm crazy to consider it.

I appreciate the children up for adoption often come from trauma often, which is concerning in terms of how that trauma may play out in later life but I'd likely want a very small baby (not saying this eradicates this but I think is reducing the risk). And also, the same can happen with biological kids you never know how they will turn out.

I'd like to hear from not just those that have adopted but also those that haven't and wouldn't as to why?

No @SmaugMum you don’t get to come onto a thread and tell other people what they should and shouldn’t be offended by, and tell them not to call out unhelpful language just because you don’t deem it so.

You also don’t get to tell people who have been affected by the language used and the attitudes on this thread that this is just a realistic picture of modern adoption. The views and are experiences shared have not been balanced, they have repeatedly referred to how traumatic the process is and how damaged adopted kids are with very little balance. Can you put yourself in the shoes one one of your kids and think what it would be like for them to read how damaged they are being repeated over and over again?

Yes, the process is difficult, yes most of the kids will have experienced trauma before and during (and sometimes after) adoption, but that isn’t a life sentence.

For what it’s worth, we adapted our kids 17 years ago, the process was a bit intrusive but not significantly so in light of the fact that they’re trying to work out if we would be decent parents. Our oldest has minor anxiety around attachment and the youngest has SEND connected with his background, and I wouldn’t change a single second of it and neither would they. Our family is beautiful, we connect with the birth family regularly and all consider ourselves to be a family.

@LovePoppy

For me, I would adopt if I couldn’t have my own children, but I’d be wary as these children could have some level of issues (nature vs nurture) and I think that’s a huge amount of work to take on. I really respect those who foster, especially older children with problems, and those who adopt.

Adopted children aren’t just there to be your back up.

Your “own” children could have just as many issues. You know that, right?

Adopted children are not second class citizens ffs

👆👆👆👆

Absolutely

@Jellycatspyjamas

better to have the bigots out than hiding in plain sight.

That’s very true @SmaugMum, though my fear is that folk don’t see past the bigots or think they know what they’re talking about and take those views forward.

@Jellycatspyjamas, your perspective will differ from mine as you bring a professional as well as personal dimension to adoption. Although, I think if I were a professional working in adoption, I would genuinely want my families to know and understand how hard this undertaking will most likely be for the longest time. I read these threads all the time, if I take a baby, I’ll dodge a bullet and because I know I’ll be the best parent I can ever possibly be and I’ll love them to the moon and back, then everything will be perfect. Well, you and I both know that love and good intentions are simply not enough. I love my DD1 around Saturn’s fiery ring but it still doesn’t change the fact that she lost her sight due to her birth mother’s opiate use, and that she is being assessed for ASD/ADHD (genetic inheritance) and she goes missing, lies constantly, steals every last penny from every family member still speaking to her, indulges in other risky behaviours and has caused me severe stress-related ill-health. Still, I plod on as this is what I signed up for and I’d rather, for the sake of all the children waiting for homes out there, that people knew MY truth.

@ineedsun

No *@SmaugMum* you don’t get to come onto a thread and tell other people what they should and shouldn’t be offended by, and tell them not to call out unhelpful language just because you don’t deem it so.

You also don’t get to tell people who have been affected by the language used and the attitudes on this thread that this is just a realistic picture of modern adoption. The views and are experiences shared have not been balanced, they have repeatedly referred to how traumatic the process is and how damaged adopted kids are with very little balance. Can you put yourself in the shoes one one of your kids and think what it would be like for them to read how damaged they are being repeated over and over again?

Yes, the process is difficult, yes most of the kids will have experienced trauma before and during (and sometimes after) adoption, but that isn’t a life sentence.

For what it’s worth, we adapted our kids 17 years ago, the process was a bit intrusive but not significantly so in light of the fact that they’re trying to work out if we would be decent parents. Our oldest has minor anxiety around attachment and the youngest has SEND connected with his background, and I wouldn’t change a single second of it and neither would they. Our family is beautiful, we connect with the birth family regularly and all consider ourselves to be a family.

And who made you the boss of the thread?

I would like to adopt, but DH doesn't feel the same way.

I would be ok with adopting a primary-aged child, but the process of being approved puts me off massively. I don't have loads of money. I'm not at home full time. My house is rented and isn't immaculate. We likely wouldn't pass the process to adopt. That said, my DS is loved and cared for and is arguably very lucky to have DH and I as parents, and I would ensure the same for any adopted child.

@SmaugMum
please, can we avoid the cancel-culture of semantics on this thread? There have been a few sharp comments in response to words used in good faith’ like ‘own’, ‘’natural’ etc

Who made me the boss of the thread when you’re saying things like this?

Those phrases are offensive and unhelpful. They perpetuate myths around adoption and just because you’re not offended by them it doesn’t mean that other people shouldn’t call them out.

You’re literally being told by people that they’re offended by the balance of the thread and you’re telling them it’s refreshing.

@ineedsun, actually, your post has made me very angry. My DD1 is ‘damaged’ in that she is blind now, having lost her sight two years ago at 12, due to the cocktail of drugs that her birth mother ingested while pregnant. My DD is RAGING that her life is blighted and that she cannot live the life of her peers and will most likely never be able to live independently. The employment statistics for blind people are woeful.

@SmaugMum absolutely love isn’t enough - for any child, adopted or not. They need intention and commitment and hard bloody work. In saying that, understanding is astonishingly poor even among professionals - I had a consultant psychiatrist tell me all my DD needed was a secure loving home and all would be well, and didn’t take kindly to me explaining why that isn’t the case, she did get the support she needs but it was a fight due to the “all you need is love” mantra.

Folk need to go into adoption with their eyes wide open, both in terms of the potential challenges and the many ways that children can and do flourish after a very adverse start.

@Jellycatspyjamas

On open adoptions, birth parents literally choose the adoptive parents and in most cases choose people similar to themselves ie. if bio mother is Eastern European and likes horses she is likely to choose an adoptive parent of EE background who likes horses.

That may happen on TV, in the States, but in the U.K. the birth parent has no involvement in choice of adopters beyond saying whether she would like someone with certain background, eg someone of a particular faith. Even then there’s no guarantee because the parent will be matched to the child across a range of variables based on the needs of the child not the wishes of the parent.

I was referencing open adoptions. I guess you missed that bit. Also I have never seen that on TV, have you? And I know v little about US adoption policy. Do you?

@MooseBreath the only thing in your list that would be an issue is your DH not being on board. I work full time - part time employed and part time running a business, my house is far from immaculate and I’ve placed lots of children with parents who rent. Lots of myths on here about what you can’t/can do in terms of adoption.

[quote SmaugMum]@LovePoppy, I actually didn’t say it was honest and helpful, no offence intended. Please re-read my posts and quote me accurately. I’m sorry this has been hurtful for you - I would never intentionally hurt anyone with my postings as that is not my nature and I do always try to be mindful of another person’s perspective. I think the reality (or mine, anyway) is that adoption always comes from a sense/place of loss - for the child, the birth parent/s and the adoptive parent/) - and that brings with it its own difficulties and sensitivities. I simply wanted to post that I have been heartened by the stories of those perhaps several times removed from adoption who ‘get’ the lifelong difficulties faced by all involved, especially the children, who had no say in how their futures would be mapped. We all, adopters/adopters/birth parents bring our own important dimension to these tales which are usually borne from tragedy.[/quote]
Sorry
“Refreshing” and “truthful”
Not at all honest and helpful.

What’s not refreshing, truthful, honest or helpful is hearing so often on this thread how damaged all adopted children are.

Good to know that’s the public perception still and that all parents who ‘take us on’ are saints.

You might not be intentionally hurtful, but that doesn’t mean the words don’t hurt

[quote ineedsun]@SmaugMum
please, can we avoid the cancel-culture of semantics on this thread? There have been a few sharp comments in response to words used in good faith’ like ‘own’, ‘’natural’ etc

Who made me the boss of the thread when you’re saying things like this?

Those phrases are offensive and unhelpful. They perpetuate myths around adoption and just because you’re not offended by them it doesn’t mean that other people shouldn’t call them out.

You’re literally being told by people that they’re offended by the balance of the thread and you’re telling them it’s refreshing.[/quote]
Oh, for fuck’s sake, I’m not saying that they’re wrong, I’m just trying to point out that people have posted on here in good faith and they’re too scared because they don’t know the right words to use but they’re doing their best. Jesus, Mumsnet is the land of the terminally offended. Don’t you think I’ve heard it all in the past 16 years (when my adoption journey began)? I’m an older parent and my kids told me today that a very confused/lost older lady we were helping thought I was their grandma. Yes, I was hurt for a nano-second, made a mental note to up my anti-wrinkle regime and then laughed with my kids because, truly, I am old and could be their grandma.

I’ve winced at a few words on here tonight - interestingly, including the use of ‘natural’ to delineate birth and adoptive children from an actual adopter - but, knee deep in the shit I deal with every day as the legacy of my child’s birth family, I give not one fuck about the use of language on here snd seek only to correct people who are willing to learn in a courteous and gentle way. As for the others, I simply don’t bother; my time and energy is better invested in being the most therapeutic parent I can be.

I was referencing open adoptions. I guess you missed that bit. Also I have never seen that on TV, have you? And I know v little about US adoption policy. Do you?

Open adoption in the U.K. doesn’t mean birth families chose the adoptive parents, it means there’s a degree of ongoing direct contact between families. I do know a fair bit about adoption policy on both sides of the Pond - what you describe can happen in the States, but not in the U.K.

I imagine it’s because most people want to adopt a baby as older children may be dealing with a lot of trauma

[quote SmaugMum]@ineedsun, actually, your post has made me very angry. My DD1 is ‘damaged’ in that she is blind now, having lost her sight two years ago at 12, due to the cocktail of drugs that her birth mother ingested while pregnant. My DD is RAGING that her life is blighted and that she cannot live the life of her peers and will most likely never be able to live independently. The employment statistics for blind people are woeful.[/quote]
And yours has made me very angry.

I’m not denying that there are kids who have significant issues relating to their background, mine does. But that is not the whole picture.
There are adoptees throughout this thread saying ‘hang on, I’m fine, don’t write off all adopted kids’ and yet time and time again people are coming back and saying the negative focus on the thread is just realistic rather than listen to them. Even with disabilities, it’s not always doom and gloom, although I accept that your DD is struggling and I’m sorry about that.

But the thing that has really wound me up about your thread is that you are trying to shut people down when they are calling out inappropriate language which perpetuates some of the problematic attitudes to adoption. It’s not semantics, it’s important. You have decided that your view trumps other people’s and that they shouldn’t be expressing them. And then turned around and asked me who made me the boss of the thread.

[quote Mommabear20]@adoptionthoughts I'd highly recommend watching 'the crazy pieces' videos on Facebook. They're an American family with 3 biological children and about 13 adopted kids! I've always had adoption on my heart and after 2 biological kids it's still very much there! I love their videos as it really shows the positives of adoption that people never talk about. [/quote]
I've just had a quick look at their videos. It's definitely a very US set up and although it all looks wonderful on the surface, something seems a bit off. There appears to be a strong religious drive behind it which, rightly or wrongly, makes me suspicious behind their motivations. It feels like they are collecting children, to be seen as good Christian saviours. I don't think you'd be allowed to adoption that many children/teens in the UK, how can you meet all their emotional needs and give them the time they deserve?

The mother also appears to have acted as a surrogate, including a maternity photoshoot for content on their channel. Considering that surrogacy has a higher mortality rate and she is shown having problems, ending up being taken by ambulance to hospital when in labour. When you have 13 children, 10(?) of whom are adopted, why would you deliberately go about risking your health or even your life which would leave all those children motherless, plus the secondary trauma for the adopted children who have already lost their biological parents/family.

Sorry, this is off topic but I just fell down a rabbit hole with that family.

One thing even if you got to adopt a very young baby .they are often traumatised from drink or drugs taken by their birth mothers .adoption is hard and few people can do it .that is why so few adoptions take place sadly

P0pc0rn I'm so sorry that as an adopted person you are having to read some of the things that have been written on here, which seem to be from people who think they know all about adoption and early childhood trauma, but clearly read a couple of articles in the Independent and knew someone who's cousin's hairdresser's adoption broke down...

I have 2 adopted children and I'd like to dispel some of these myths if possible:

1. The process might be long, 'brutal' and intrusive for some people I suppose, but for us it took around a year from the beginning to when we were matched. It wasn't brutal, it was actually quite nice. We loved our social worker and enjoyed taking the time to reflect on our relationship, our support network etc. We found the training very helpful. I'm sure some counties/agencies are better than others, but we found it to be a warm, supportive process in which we made good friends we still have today (6 years on).
2. Whilst it is true that all adopted children have experienced trauma and many are likely to need extra support and a different type of parenting, they are not 'broken' and whoever said 'the apple doesn't fall far from tree' - honestly, I have no words.
3. Being an adoptive parent is certainly harder than being what I call an 'entry level' parent, but aim higher folks, where's your self belief! Otherwise you better hope life is pretty kind to you, because you certainly don't seem very resilient.
4. The person who said something about them and their partner being particularly good looking and intelligent God bless your ignorance. I work in paediatrics and the overwhelming majority of the children I see, all of whom have significant additional needs, are birth children. As I work in the private sector many of the families I work with are affluent and highly educated, some of them are also very pretty . Your children may not have additional needs, but they are extremely unlikely to meet your expectations (they will be their own people) and that attitude is likely to have them in therapy for life - it's not only adopted children who suffer childhood trauma you know!
5. Being an adoptive parent is hard. Being a parent is hard. Life is hard. If you think you can avoid pain and hardship you're wrong. Doing something hard can make you stronger and happier and open your eyes to things you may never have seen otherwise.
6. My children are the best thing that ever happened to me, they bring me joy every single day (even the really rubbish days) and if you told me they were 'broken' to my face I'd probably punch you in yours.

There are adoptees throughout this thread saying ‘hang on, I’m fine, don’t write off all adopted kids’ and yet time and time again people are coming back and saying the negative focus on the thread is just realistic rather than listen to them

Nobody is ‘writing off’ children (adopted or otherwise) because they may have been subjected to trauma.

It isn’t the children that are the problem, it is that things they have lived through and then a drawn out process may have left them needing proper support.

The OP had a whiff of saviour with a hint of romanticism. People’s responses on this thread have been to point out that not everyone has the confidence to parent a child who may have a complex need of support.

Yes, we can all give birth to a child with equally complex needs. I know: I have a child with a disability. Of course it is not all doom and gloom. Our family is full of fun, pride, achievement, fulfilment. Like any family. But it is 100% realistic to say that we have also faced huge challenges. Financial, relationship stress, a child in pain…. all sorts. It is no slur on my child or our parenting to say it can be really tough. But obviously that your aspect doesn’t mean we love our child less, or that our child is see. As negative in any way. And nor are adopted children less loved or valued.

If people think about adopting a child with a disability, they need to know the reality.

I don’t need language censoring and rise tints to share both the joy and challenge of our family life with a disabled child, and I dare say parents if someone adopted children feel the same.

The intrusion and judgement from social services etc puts me off. I think I’m a good mum to my 3 biological children but wouldn’t want to have to pass a ‘test’ or prove myself for the right to parent. It’s a shame though, because I’d love to help.

@stilltiredinthemorning

P0pc0rn I'm so sorry that as an adopted person you are having to read some of the things that have been written on here, which seem to be from people who think they know all about adoption and early childhood trauma, but clearly read a couple of articles in the Independent and knew someone who's cousin's hairdresser's adoption broke down...

I have 2 adopted children and I'd like to dispel some of these myths if possible:

1. The process might be long, 'brutal' and intrusive for some people I suppose, but for us it took around a year from the beginning to when we were matched. It wasn't brutal, it was actually quite nice. We loved our social worker and enjoyed taking the time to reflect on our relationship, our support network etc. We found the training very helpful. I'm sure some counties/agencies are better than others, but we found it to be a warm, supportive process in which we made good friends we still have today (6 years on).
2. Whilst it is true that all adopted children have experienced trauma and many are likely to need extra support and a different type of parenting, they are not 'broken' and whoever said 'the apple doesn't fall far from tree' - honestly, I have no words.
3. Being an adoptive parent is certainly harder than being what I call an 'entry level' parent, but aim higher folks, where's your self belief! Otherwise you better hope life is pretty kind to you, because you certainly don't seem very resilient.
4. The person who said something about them and their partner being particularly good looking and intelligent God bless your ignorance. I work in paediatrics and the overwhelming majority of the children I see, all of whom have significant additional needs, are birth children. As I work in the private sector many of the families I work with are affluent and highly educated, some of them are also very pretty . Your children may not have additional needs, but they are extremely unlikely to meet your expectations (they will be their own people) and that attitude is likely to have them in therapy for life - it's not only adopted children who suffer childhood trauma you know!
5. Being an adoptive parent is hard. Being a parent is hard. Life is hard. If you think you can avoid pain and hardship you're wrong. Doing something hard can make you stronger and happier and open your eyes to things you may never have seen otherwise.
6. My children are the best thing that ever happened to me, they bring me joy every single day (even the really rubbish days) and if you told me they were 'broken' to my face I'd probably punch you in yours.

Well said. 😊

@StrifeOfBath

There are adoptees throughout this thread saying ‘hang on, I’m fine, don’t write off all adopted kids’ and yet time and time again people are coming back and saying the negative focus on the thread is just realistic rather than listen to them

Nobody is ‘writing off’ children (adopted or otherwise) because they may have been subjected to trauma.

It isn’t the children that are the problem, it is that things they have lived through and then a drawn out process may have left them needing proper support.

The OP had a whiff of saviour with a hint of romanticism. People’s responses on this thread have been to point out that not everyone has the confidence to parent a child who may have a complex need of support.

Yes, we can all give birth to a child with equally complex needs. I know: I have a child with a disability. Of course it is not all doom and gloom. Our family is full of fun, pride, achievement, fulfilment. Like any family. But it is 100% realistic to say that we have also faced huge challenges. Financial, relationship stress, a child in pain…. all sorts. It is no slur on my child or our parenting to say it can be really tough. But obviously that your aspect doesn’t mean we love our child less, or that our child is see. As negative in any way. And nor are adopted children less loved or valued.

If people think about adopting a child with a disability, they need to know the reality.

I don’t need language censoring and rise tints to share both the joy and challenge of our family life with a disabled child, and I dare say parents if someone adopted children feel the same.

Amen.

@OldLadyInPolyester oh yes, the madness and control freakery of telling people with fertility issues they have to use contraception Do people actually adhere or just nod and smile, then secretly decline to do that