To be saddened, and yet also angry, that the Harry Potter 20th Anniversary Reunion show totally blanked JK Rowling?

[SkyBlueBlues]

I mean, she did create the bloody thing!

Just watched it. 100 minutes of the young cast who were the main characters (Harry, Ron, Hermione, Malfoy, Neville Longbottom, The Weasley brothers, etc,) gushing over one another. Laughing and hugging and kissing, and reminiscing and brushing tears from their cheeks, as they whispered 'we're family... always have been, always will be.......'

Not ONE mention of the woman who created it all, and gave them the lives they have now. In fact many people were interviewed, including Ralph Fiennes, Helena Bonham Carter, Gary Oldman, Robbie Coltrane, Bonnie wright, Alfred Enoch, Toby Jones, Mark Williams, Jason Isaacs, etc. Not ONE of them mentioned JK Rowling.

All we got featuring JK, was two 10 to 15 second clips of footage from an interview she did 3 years ago. The narrator mentioned her ONCE! That's it! None of the 'stars' mentioned her, or thanked her for ANYthing. As I said, Harry Potter exists because of HER. Yet she was not deemed worthy of a mention or a thank you.

AIBU to think it's sad and also bloody infuriating, that she has been blanked in this manner? IMO, it's clearly because of the accusations of her being 'transphobic,' (which I don't think she is frankly,) and I am dismayed and somewhat disgusted, that these young people whose careers exist because of JK Rowling, are now treating her like a pariah.

I am a huge fan of Harry Potter, both the books and the films, and this has sullied it all for me now.

As to why these two quite separate issues get conflated by trans rights activists, we got an insight into that recently when Professor Zoe Playdon got a book published about a Scottish doctor who the Prof believes to have been a transman, ie bio female identifying as male. The doctor produced a lot of medical evidence to support a diagnosis of having a DSD (in modern terms). This was required because the doctor inherited a title and the doctor's cousin challenged this because the title could only pass to a male member of the family.

Professor Playdon is a transwoman, and if I have correctly understood some old comments I found via Google, believes that being trans is exactly like being 'intersex', except that the trans person has no physical differences, the differences are all in the head leading to a gender identity that doesn't match the body. Playdon's view is that the doctor was this version of 'intersex', not the type we would now regard as having a DSD. Difficult to know which applied, as a transcript of the court proceedings is not available, IIRC.

My impression is that this is a very old-fashioned and idiosyncratic view nowadays, but Bloomsbury Publishing accepted it uncritically and published this book, even though many of Professor Playdon's interpretations appear to be very questionable, as debunked extensively on Twitter by various legal experts.

Intersex people have repeatedly asked to be left out of this whole debate so it's a great shame that trans allies & transpeople show absolutely zero respect for their feelings & keep dragging them into it.

Incidentally I could be described as having pale skin, long arms, slanted eyes & a round face but nobody has ever thought those features translated into looking as if I am of Jewish descent.
I look Irish & get spotted as being from an Irish family pretty much every time, although very few people pick up the slight slant to my eyes & slightly flattened features which comes from the non Irish part of my family.

I have zero respect for the expectations of someone who refers to normal people as Trash humans along with the rest of the world.

Not read the whole thread but these 'stars' are twats. In 20 years hopefully they will realise this. Twats rich ones but still twats. Also Google Jo Phoenix. Shut down by OU. If anyone wants my periods they can have the fuckers

@Lollipopslollypop

I haven't read the full thread so don't know if it has been mentioned but Tom Felton refused to condemn her and they tried to "cancel" him for it. He's still attacked viciously on TikTok and Twitter for not jumping on the bandwagon of hating on her. It must make him and others involved so wary of what they say or else they find themselves at the end of another witch hunt with people trying to destroy their careers.

Disgraceful. I don't think I've seen any of his recent work, so I hope he has some real talent to carry him through. The actor who played Neville does seem to have launched into an adult acting career and is good.

@SkaterChick

If you read the links do have her tweets in the article's.. her actual words.

There's this. Saying that every who menstruates is a women? No they're not.
Trans men are men, and they might menstruate too.

Trans men are not men. They do Just like trans women are not women. You cannot make up your own facts. The day you understand that thing called science, then you might make more sense.

@RuggerHug

If you've gone through menopause, have a hysterectomy, are intersex, or any other reason you don't menstruate are you allowed decide what to call yourself or do you have to submit it to a committee to decide what they want for you? If it's all so clear cut black and white.

Saying this kind of thing makes you look like a very young, uninformed, bumptious, arrogant teenager. It's just plain silly.

@Lollipopslollypop

Good on Tom Felton!

@EishetChayil

Did your five year old write this? Reads like they did.

She supported someone who was sacked for saying tweeting that people cannot change their biological sex.
Regardless of whether that person had their ruling in courts over turned she still supported them and their beliefs.

It was established during Maya Forstater's appeal that, not only is believing that sex is real and immutable worthy of respect in a democratic society, it's also consistent with the law. From the judgement:

Second, the Claimant’s belief that sex is immutable and binary is, as the Tribunal itself correctly concluded, consistent with the law:

Where a belief or a major tenet of it appears to be in accordance with the law of the land, then it is all the more jarring that it should be declared as one not worthy of respect in a democratic society

Had the Tribunal taken that approach, it could only have concluded that the belief was worthy of respect in a democratic society. Not only is it worthy of respect, but it is also one that is consistent with the common law under which sex is regarded as binary and fixed at birth for the purposes of all legal provisions which make a distinction between men and women

The coming into force of s.9, GRA, under which a person with a Gender Recognition Certificate (“GRC”) “becomes for all purposes” the acquired gender, does not, as the Tribunal appears to have found, require the Claimant to disregard what she considers to be a material reality, namely that sex is immutable.

So no, people are not transphobic, or disgusting or vile for understanding that you can't actually change sex.

@SkaterChick

Her response when she was called out for being transphobic. She supported someone who was sacked for saying tweeting that people cannot change their biological sex. Regardless of whether that person had their ruling in courts over turned she still supported them and their beliefs.

She supported someone who stated a scientific fact. Do explain how that is transphobic. Are you a flat earther?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g he hasn't done a huge amount, but he was the most talented of the bunch having had several movies under his belt before doing Harry Potter so hopefully he'll have a long career.

@Justheretoaskaquestion91 I know!

@sst1234, go back and read @EishetChayil's list. It doesn't say what I think you've assumed.

@DrSbaitso

This is the point I’m making. I haven’t said anything that could be directly quoted as being anti-Semitic but you’re making that suggestion.

YOU made the suggestion!

You quoted a passage and implied that it was antisemitic, thereby linking it to Jewish people. Without any cause. There's nothing in there that calls on Jewish stereotypes.

I read that post and had no idea where you were going until you specifically mentioned antisemitism with an overtly ironic statement that isn't even half as clever as you think it is.

Rowling made no such obviously ironic, loaded and clumsy, unsubstantiated statement. She's too intelligent, too good a writer, and too much NOT a transphobe.

It's always "more complicated than that" when it doesn't sodding exist!

I was replying to someone who suggested that if I saw the goblins and made the link then I was anti-Semitic.

The reason I started talking about it in the first place was in reply to a poster who said JK was being criticised for the goblins’ appearance as if she was in charge of the art department on the movies. The passage I quoted was to show that their appearance came from her description.

I quoted both of those posts in my reply.

I haven’t just jumped on and grabbed an argument out of thin air, I was building on what someone else had said first in order to try and illustrate dog-whistles.

I was replying to someone who suggested that if I saw the goblins and made the link then I was anti-Semitic.

Which is what you did. There is nothing in her description that calls on Jewish stereotypes. You just wish there were so you can demonise her further for things she didn't say. Or maybe you really do read "pale skin, long digits, round heads, may have slanted eyes or a pointed nose" and think "Jewish". Do you?

Rowling also described Harry as having green eyes. Radcliffe's are clearly blue throughout. And Hermione wasn't supposed to be effortlessly, conventionally beautiful. She was meant to have frizzy hair and fangy teeth.

Quite apart from all this, do you not know how goblins look traditionally? Did you think they were teddy bears? Why are they antisemitic only when Rowling uses them?

If those she made stars had any scruples they would give to charity all the money they have made on the back of JKR and slither back to obscurity they came from

Oh sorry, you do read that and think "Jewish".

"I can see a parallel with an anti-Semitic stereotype. The nose, the eyes, being “clever” being in charge of the banks, but also regarded as less than human."

Good for you.

So presumably, this is how you would have written them:

"The goblins were thick as shit because nobody in the wizarding world would want intelligent creatures in charge of the money. They were exactly like humans, despite being one of many established non-human mythical creatures who exist in fantasy literature, like centaurs and elves. They were pale skinned with long fingers, I think it's ok to say that. Some of them had slanted eyes and one of them happened to have a pointed nose, but not like Jewish people because I'm not an antisemite."

Nice.

I'm feeling a bit bad, actually. I don't think you are antisemitic, @CalishataFolkart. But I do think you're casting around wildly for more things to use to attack JKR, and like many of her detractors, you're so keen to demonise her to prove your superior social conscience that you either don't realise or don't care who else you throw under the bus to do it.

Women are one group who lose out when people declare she's a transphobe for recognising the reality of sex. As we saw on this thread, people with DSDs are also routinely exploited and insulted to this end. And now Jewish people as well, as various new stereotypes are now being connected with them. Slanted eyes, really? I've never heard that as a Jewish stereotype. And I don't think it's helpful to suggest that any intelligent banker character MUST be Jewish either. Can't you see this?

The real question is why the need to attack JKR and promote trans rights makes it OK to crap on women, people with DSDs, Jewish people and whoever the fuck it'll be tomorrow. Why does nobody else matter too?

As much as I love JKR, I voted YABU because:

• It's never actually been confirmed whether she was invited to contribute or not
• She was actually mentioned a lot even if she didn't feature, and none of the references to her were negative
• As others have explained, the show is about the FILMS not the books/HP world as a whole. Trying to think of a roughly comparable scenario - there was a huge amount of backstage/behind the scene/making of/interviews with the case for Game of Thrones, but GRRM hardly featured - the focus was very much on the showrunners/actors/various show professionals because they were talking about the TV show, not the books

Also not all of the actors you impugn have distanced themselves from her - Evanna Lynch got a twitter pile on (despite supporting TWAW) for criticising the abuse JKR got, and Bonnie Wright specifically thanked her on her instagram post about the reunion show. The main 3 are twats but they're not all as bad.

The reason I started talking about it in the first place was in reply to a poster who said JK was being criticised for the goblins’ appearance as if she was in charge of the art department on the movies. The passage I quoted was to show that their appearance came from her description.

I've read all the books and seen some of the films and it never occurred to me the goblins represented Jewish people.

I haven’t just jumped on and grabbed an argument out of thin air, I was building on what someone else had said first in order to try and illustrate dog-whistles.

You heard it, I didn't. Which one of us is anti-semetic? That's how dog whistles work isn't it?

I don’t want to wade too far into this (not being Jewish and not being well versed in the history of anti Semitic tropes), but there have been complaints/comments, including from Jewish people, concerning the goblins for at least a decade. I don’t think Rowling is an anti-Semite but I don’t think it’s fair to imply that those, who do see familiarity with certain tropes, are themselves racist.

'Her response when she was called out for being transphobic.
She supported someone who was sacked for saying tweeting that people cannot change their biological sex.
Regardless of whether that person had their ruling in courts over turned she still supported them and their beliefs.'

What's transphobic about that is this nonsense actually doing trans people any favours? When actual transphobic comments are made who will take it seriously? I'm sure there's loads of really nasty things said to trans people but this is the case that ends up in court it doesn't do anybody any good. Facts are facts, they may be uncomfortable for some people but that's just life.

@Lollipopslollypop

I haven't read the full thread so don't know if it has been mentioned but Tom Felton refused to condemn her and they tried to "cancel" him for it. He's still attacked viciously on TikTok and Twitter for not jumping on the bandwagon of hating on her. It must make him and others involved so wary of what they say or else they find themselves at the end of another witch hunt with people trying to destroy their careers.

Oh I like Tom Felton, he comes across really well on his social media. I think he did absolute the right thing by keeping out of it all and not saying anything. He still has a huge following and haven't been able to cancel him. The other 3 could have kept silent but chose not to.

@EishetChayil

Ffs

To the picture obvs

Just checking in to see if @CorrBlimeyGG, @NameChanged15729, @SkaterChick, @amijustparanoidorjuststoned have yet provided evidence of JKR's alleged transphobia. Actual, full, direct quotes.

Have I missed it?

I'm afraid that saying that people who menstruate are known as "women" isn't really good enough. She didn't preface it with the word "all" so you can't even argue that she was being exclusionary.

Most trans people acknowledge that sex is real. Are they transphobic?

And with regards to people with DSDs, there is only one DSD which results in both male and female tissue forming. It's called "ovotesticular disorder", very few have been able to bear a child and there have been no documented cases of someone with this condition fathering a child. The condition has affected around 525 people in recorded history, all other DSDs are such that modern medical science (scans, DNA testing etc.) can establish whether they are really male or female.

People with DSDs are not trans, and it is offensive to drag them into this. Posters who do so should (to borrow a phrase) educate themselves.