Middle Class/Upper middle class most frugal with money (in a good way!)

[Montana7]

Out of our friends with dc the same age as ours the most middle class & upper middle seem to be the most frugal & love a bargain.. Many are very high earners yet dc wear second hand clothes, uniforms, the families are very good with food & pride themselves on zero waste... Have great holidays think safaris, multiple ski trips pre covid but always prided themselves on getting the best deals... I think its bloody brilliant & after realising how much disposable cash DH & I fritter away especially around Christmas I aspire to be more frugal... Aibu to suggest the mc/umc appreciate the value of money more or is it just the ones we know...

@Mrsjayy

Pretending to make do and mend whilst having a privileged life is a bit of a hobby isn't it ,?

Indeed. It’s also privileged. Being so confident in your status that you’re not bothered whether pp think you’re poor because the kids are in second hand clothes.

Its a signal that you can choose to buy second hand because there is no stigma or shame attached to it, as you don't need to. So you can enter that shop with confidence and your head held high
I've done both too and this doesn't apply to me at all. Don't make generalities.

I used to travel a lot with my work and so has a nice new car. I now work from home and it needs the car for short journeys. I could still afford my nice car but it was just a complete waste. I sold it and bought a small car a few years old. I still miss my old car but I couldn't justify it even when I could afford it.

It's nothing to do with knowing I could buy it again if I wanted to. It's nothing to do with driving with my head high because I know I could buy a nice car. I couldn't care less what other people think.

I just don't like having nice things for the status when it is not needed, that's all.

Pretending to make do and mend whilst having a privileged life is a bit of a hobby isn't it ,?

Yes. Like a weird fetish that the OP and her DH are looking to join.

OP, I think you're overlooking the attitude towards conspicuous consumption of certain kinds in some sectors of society -- an ancient hand-me-down uniform and battered trunk at a certain sort of public school, for instance, indicates either an older sibling or other relative also attended, giving you a pedigree, OR just that you have the 'right attitude' and are so confident in your social position you can ignore appearances. A spanking new get up and gleaming designer suitcases indicates (viewed from this angle) nouveau riche insecurity and trying too hard.

I remember a newspaper article about Kate and Pippa Middleton's schooldays, containing apparently innocent but in fact deeply bitchy comments from another (purported) parent who'd had children at Marlborough at the same time the other parent said the Middleton parents made everyone feel inadequate because the girls were always perfectly turned out in new school get-ups with perfectly sewn name tapes, perfect luggage and smart, brand-new sports equipment and that they always brought the most elaborate picnics to school sports days etc.

It looks like admiration, but the subtext is 'not quite PLU, trying too hard'.

So, the appearance of frugality (at least in certain things) can in itself be a class marker.

Look at how often the same shibboleths are trotted out on here about the 'genuinely UC' their battered cars, their hair-covered ancient clothes etc going along with their 'lovely manners'. Ditto for the disapproving accounts of the nouveaux riches conspicuous wealth, designer gear, over-elaborate grooming, pushiness etc.

I was in a charity shop on one occasion when I desperately needed something smart for a job interview. I had nothing and a tenner to spend. The shop was full of people with lots of money buying up all the good stuff. It felt hopeless and really hurt.
People with money taking all the decent clothes when they could just as easily fuck off to John Lewis or Whistles.

Really depressing.
As PP has stated the cheapest people I have known have been very wealthy. I went to law school many years ago with multiple wealthy people who would rather borrow money from me for lunch than spend a fiver themselves. And they never paid me back.

That and the charity shop example above has left me with a very clear idea about haves and have-nots.
And frugal people categorically do NOT own horses, or sail boats.
Frugality comes from denial from necessity. You ain't denying yourself anything really if you only do it 25% of the time. The "oh I shop in charity shops and only keep one horse instead of two' set can get lost.

@Montana7

As my DH always says "that's why they can afford to go skiing because they priortise this over other luxuries"..

Sure. I think he's just trying to get YOU to spend less.

DH works for just above minimum wage, I get carers for eldest. Our luxuries are.... family trip to Starbucks every few weeks, the odd cinema trip, maybe a magazine if DS really wants the toy and to do that most of their Xmas presents (joint budget for 3 about 300) was good quality second hand. I've tested myself to clothes from birthday money all second hand. Food shop at Lidl and Tesco.

You really think the only thing stopping me going skiing and on safari is our lavish expenditure on treats?

Rich people have the choice to be frugal. They can buy second hand when they see it and save it for when they need it. They have great tech so can sell things second hand. They are often self employed with complex tax arrangements and so can shop when things are quieter/buy when bargains are available.

I've done both, bought from charity as a choice and from an absence of choice. They are completely different experiences.

Same.

Now have a successful career and quite wealthy and drive a small car because I like it and still shop second hand when I can just because I don't like what we are doing to our planet. It is a very different experience from doing the same as a single mum earlier in my career because even putting food on the table involved excruciatingly careful budgeting

I know people like this, get really excited about a clothing charity shop purchase, expect me to be really impressed yet bought a 40k brand new car.

Supermarket own branded food but order really expensive wines.

I remember this article.. They always had brand new tennis rackets & beautiful picnics for sports day...it didn't sound as if Carole Middleton was particularly accepted if I remember the article correctly. It must have been around the time of Wills & Kate's wedding I read it...

If you are basing this on one couple I would suggest they are just tight. You get this type in all classes.

Doesn’t it depend on your meaning of the word frugal? to some being frugal is saving pennies everywhere so they can afford to put electric on and buy a pint of milk…for others it is deciding what is important to them to spend their money on?
Some want a skiing holiday above all else so to ensure that happens will buy clothes from a charity shop as they aren’t bothered- their mindset is clothing is just a necessity they need - not bothered about brands or it being new?!

I think it also depends how time rich you are and what other resources you have to be able to 'fund' a more sustainable lifestyle. Being able to find the right things second hand (for good value, not just any old price) takes time, often you need to store things you have found for when DC grow into them, spend time planning how to use leftovers etc.

It's not just about what you buy but also about the other resources you can use (time, space in your home, among others) to maximise what you do buy. If you are lacking in those resources then it stands to reason that you may live less 'sustainably' than others.

You're talking about privilege, not frugality. Time and money are something those less fortunate do not have.

I think when you're wealthy you know that you have options, more choice in how and on what you spend. Eg being frugal in some areas in order to be able to afford horses. It's a generalisation but when you are really poor your disposable income is so limited that it may feel like there's no point in saving a few pennies, why not spend it all on whatever you like.

I would say I'm middle class by education and housing status, currently working class by profession (nature of my job, not that I work!). So I have been a lot wealthier, and I do love to be frugal, always have. But I do that in order to, for example, make more expensive purchases that the working class probably would never consider - most recent, a wool duvet that I didn't 'need' but I wanted and I love.

In my job, I see what various people spend on. People that look obviously 'poor' spend what I would consider quite lavishly on things like crisps, fizzy drinks and similar snacks. They speak of their huge hauls from Primark, which will be worn for literally weeks then binned. They like on-trend sports label clothing, which to me are ridiculously priced for what they are and for how long they will be enjoyed. I am literally that person who would be so excited to get a Boden item in the charity shop!

However I think there should be more awareness that lots of wealthy people are tight with things to help people with less not feel embarrassed about 2nd hand etc.

You seriously believe this @Hollyhead? Wealthy people are tight to help the lower classes feel better?

This is just complete nonsense. They will be spending their money on different things, but they'll still be spending plenty.

Keeping horses / going on skiing trips etc. is not frugal. They will also have top of the range gear for other hobbies, I'm sure - bikes, hiking gear etc. (all wholesome outdoor activities that the MC love)

Also, I bet their food shopping is all organic, artisan, local specialists etc - good for the planet maybe, but not frugal.

Exactly, @vivainsomnia. Both DH and I have good incomes and we just don't care about brand name clothes or what the latest gadget is. This is why we could afford a nice, big house. If we spent money on our clothes, hair and gadgets like two of my SILs we wouldn't have been able to afford the nice house.

One of my SILs has straight out complained that it is unfair, but while we got master's degrees in hard core very tough academic subjects and spent 60-80 hours a week studying, she studied to become a nursery nurse and it was only for two years and not even 20 hours a week. (Cue her whining about how boooooring we were). Now she spends £150 a month on her hair, at least £200 on clothes and always need to have the latest gadgets and it is so unfair that she can't afford a big house. Meanwhile, no one in our family has ever owned an iPhone. I cut everyone's hair. We have several items of clothing that is approx. 20 years old. My old laptop was 8 years old before I got a new one.

The other SIL likes to comment on our vacation with a bitter remark about how they can't afford vacations. She has a kitchen that is practically science fiction! It is always the latest new gadgets in there. In some cases things we didn't even know existed. They have a big house in a cheap area but have spent a lot on improving and decorating it
And she still buys lots of brand name clothing and new gadgets for their children even though they are in their twenties and haven't lived with them for years.

The OP appears to have successfully got the response she wanted.

Also, buying fewer clothes and soft furnishing, but only buying cashmere/wool/silk or other natural fibres isn't frugal - those things are a lot more expensive than Primark!

Haven’t read the whole thread. Suffice to say it’s predictable. Lol

@Doubledoorsontogarden

I know people like this, get really excited about a clothing charity shop purchase, expect me to be really impressed yet bought a 40k brand new car.

Supermarket own branded food but order really expensive wines.

And so what? They prioritise their spending, just like you do. Obviously they care more about wine than food, and more about cars than clothes.

It's nothing to do with knowing I could buy it again if I wanted to. It's nothing to do with driving with my head high because I know I could buy a nice car. I couldn't care less what other people think. I just don't like having nice things for the status when it is not needed, that's all

You misunderstand. Its not about what other people think. Its about what you feel about yourself when you know you life has gone to the shit and the shame and failure arising from that.

Even if I were attempting to get a gold medal in frugality, however, I would draw the line at buying supermarket clothes.

I think that people with money can often be in a position to make economic decisions based on cost per wear rather than being constrained by limits on absolute cost.

My parents bought me a really nice wool coat in the sales when I was 18. It is still in decent condition over 20 years later although I had to get the lining replaced once. Coat cost £100 from £300, lining replacement cost £90 but it is still my go to for smart winter use. When I got it relined I couldn't find a nice coat for the relining cost...

If they'd not had the money to give me that coat at 18 and I'd not had the £90 6 years later I'd probably have needed to buy 10 coats for £20-£50...

Likewise with shoes, especially for men (see Vimes above).

Also furnishings, carpets etc. Spend a bit more and they last multiple times longer!

I was dubious about the value of Sweaty Betty leggings, bought some as a reward for improving my running in lockdown and they have lasted me so much longer than the leggings they've replaced. Easily more than the difference in cost - I think it's something about the seams and my substantial thighs - so I can buy 1 pair in the sale for £40 and they've lasted 3 times longer (and counting) than a pair from Amazon or Matalan bought for £20...