Middle Class/Upper middle class most frugal with money (in a good way!)

[Montana7]

Out of our friends with dc the same age as ours the most middle class & upper middle seem to be the most frugal & love a bargain.. Many are very high earners yet dc wear second hand clothes, uniforms, the families are very good with food & pride themselves on zero waste... Have great holidays think safaris, multiple ski trips pre covid but always prided themselves on getting the best deals... I think its bloody brilliant & after realising how much disposable cash DH & I fritter away especially around Christmas I aspire to be more frugal... Aibu to suggest the mc/umc appreciate the value of money more or is it just the ones we know...

@Bluesarestillblue - Given the lifestyle you describe, I'm guessing you earn considerably more than the UK average. It's not uncommon to estimate that the average household income is a lot higher than it actually is.

@tectonicplates

I always laugh at people who say "I'm not rich, just well off". Where is the line drawn? What does "well off" mean if you're not rich? It's totally ridiculous. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would see it as the same thing, and changing the words doesn't really make a difference.

Perhaps it's saving your money rather than spending it unnecessarily that leads to having the opportunity to build up savings

@CSJobseeker FOR THE WHOLE HOUSE?! It seems I am out of touch 😬.

[quote FTEngineerM]@CSJobseeker FOR THE WHOLE HOUSE?! It seems I am out of touch 😬.[/quote]
Tbh, before I looked it up, I had estimated closer to £40k for average household income in my head.

It's really common to overestimate what "average" is, whether that's about income, house size, holidays, or other assets. Humans are inclined to think that our social circle is closer to average than it really is.

@CSJobseeker. Ah, a bit more than that. I was actually basing it on an average salary of around 30k per adult. I’ll be honest, I feel very well off. It’s miles away from the lifestyle I had as a child (4 kids in a 2 bed council flat). My parents looked after us well and we didn’t go without, but when I went to uni I suddenly felt very poor (I worked right through uni and contributed to the family pot etc).
DH is from a middle class family: GP and pharmacist type.

I definitely don’t look or sound middle class; west coast Scottish accent: and I am quite fat, suspect people do make assumptions.

In mn world I’m very poor. In my various social groups there are all different income levels. Some single parents on minimum wage. Other friends well off professionals and business owners.
I think we’re in the middle

I get what you are saying OP. DH and myself are from very working class backgrounds but our close friendship circles are mostly made up of people who not only have a MC lifestyle now but were born into one. I see huge differences compared to our WC family and the people we knew in our younger days. For example priding yourself on a ‘nice’ car seems very WC - our wealthy friends who all live in old rectories and beautiful country homes all drive old bangers! And yes second hand, car boot sales, make do and mend. Threadbare old sofas, scruffy old rugs and carpets, one of my wealthiest friends wears (expensive) old clothes with holes in them. But the WC people we know, it’s really important to them to give their kids brand new everything, clothes, toys etc. Brand new sofas on finance, gleaming cars etc - it’s a working class thing, pride in being able to provide what they would deem as ‘the best’ (I.e new). Whereas in MC world that wouldn’t be seen as tasteful. It’s just a cultural thing. Surprised at all the people on here who don’t seem to have seen or experienced this. Of course you will always get some people who don’t fit in those boxes. And yes there is an irony to all the zero waste etc when you are jet setting around the world and all the rest but that doesn’t mean there isn’t value in all the ways a person is endeavouring to tread lightly.

Oh wow! You could just have said that you disagree!

@CSJobseeker I’m glad I read it, it has put things into perspective.

@Skinnymimi

Oh wow! You could just have said that you disagree!

Your first post on this thread said that your claims were "not my opinion... it's facts." But you obviously object to people pointing out that the information you have available cannot possibly prove the facts that you claim.

I've been shopping at supermarkets (and other shops) for years. I've not often seen anyone engage in anything other than small talk with staff. The odd person might be more chatty, but there is no way that you can assess the wealth or wider spending habits of all your customers in the way you claim.

Just look upthread! Post after post from comfortably-off people who choose to shop cheaply but spend the money on holidays, horses, or private schooling instead. You're not going to see where they spend their money from working in retail, so your claim to be able to state as a "fact" that rich people spend less was ridiculous.

[quote FTEngineerM]@CSJobseeker I’m glad I read it, it has put things into perspective.[/quote]
I'm glad I looked it up, because I was surprised that it wasn't higher.

That was for the pre-pandemic year as well (2019-20), so won't have been affected by furlough etc.

If you are independently wealthy you can take bigger risks because they are not risks.

Eg taking a mulitmillion pound mortgage on a house, (that you don't need) and reinvesting the lump sum for a higher return than the interest you are paying on the mortgage.

Oh I've got another good one.

Genuinely said to my Father in law (a gardener)... 'Why don't you just sell a painting?'.

Why not in deed.

@Lesserspottedmama I love your post. I love that it explains the difference without claiming one is better or worse than the other. Beautifully put. I would quite like it to be stickied to the top of every Mumsnet thread on differences between social classes

@Cherryana

Oh I've got another good one.

Genuinely said to my Father in law (a gardener)... 'Why don't you just sell a painting?'.

Why not in deed.

Hmm. I once knew a Lord of the realm (by birth rather than elevation). He was both old and old school.

He was judicious in his spending but never skimped. He only ever bought what he needed, but when he needed something he always bought the best and never short-changed a retailer or service provider. Never, ever stinted it’s spoiled the ship for a ha’penny worth of tar.

So first class rail/air tickets, best quality of everything, always tipped very well, never haggled. He was a very loyal repeat customer in many cases.

It’s fine saying new money has no class, they are all about showing off, real wealthy people don’t spend any money etc. those ancestral homes were considered very bling when they were built, and certainly didn’t have threadbare carpets.

Also @xnowayout I don't like the "looking down on " element of the way people talk about new money. I don't see one way as better than the other. Our neighbours are very "new money" - constant renovations, new everything, huge SUVs, etc. But they are genuinely lovely people who helped me care for our elderly neighbors and I genuinely enjoy their company.

@GoLittleRockstar

Hmm. I once knew a Lord of the realm (by birth rather than elevation). He was both old and old school.

He was judicious in his spending but never skimped. He only ever bought what he needed, but when he needed something he always bought the best and never short-changed a retailer or service provider. Never, ever stinted it’s spoiled the ship for a ha’penny worth of tar.

So first class rail/air tickets, best quality of everything, always tipped very well, never haggled. He was a very loyal repeat customer in many cases.

I trust he didn’t have constant renovations done to his property and exchange one set of antiques for another at regular intervals, though. (Bought in, naturally). I imagine his possessions were inherited or were gradually acquired.

@forcedfun agreed no looking down for me. Everyone was “new money” at some point.

@cam22. Doesn’t that just show the merits of that approach though? That you have things that last and can pass on? Including relationships.

Also my granma, ultra working class to the point of being revolutionary (literally) used to say “buy cheap; buy dear”. DH’s mum says a variation “buy cheap; buy twice”.

I don't get the sneering at new money. Some will be lottery wins etc but surely for most it means they've worked to earn it, not just inherited money someone else worked to earn?

Everyone knows if you buy quality it lasts longer. But first, not everyone can afford to. And secondly, not everyone wants things to last.
When younger I always used to buy clothes that would last, plus every year one or two fashion things. I knew I would be unlikely to wear the fashion things any longer than a year or two at most, so they didn't have to be quality that would last for twenty years.
Similarly cheap paperbacks that I read once don't have to be excellent quality. Just last long enough for me to read them.

@SleepingStandingUp

I don't get the sneering at new money. Some will be lottery wins etc but surely for most it means they've worked to earn it, not just inherited money someone else worked to earn?

Exactly It is just envy IMO

I am a British born Chinese, education is valued above everything by Chinese families. I married a beautifully spoken Englishman who did grow up with ponies, servants and went to a famous public school.

Over the last 30 years due to his Fathers financial decisions they have fallen on harder times. His Mother will now be downsizing and moving near us. She still has a few ancestral portraits and some family silver.

So that generation due to the shocking decisions of his Father lost the actual money. MIL is as a person still a very gracious human who glides about and treats every single person she meets well but is not in the least bit practical. I think she was sent to a finishing school.

MIL ancestry is French Huguenot. FIL ancestors are English and they have an ancient Anglo Saxon name, one of DH paternal ancestors was a signatory on Charles I death warrant.

We are quiet studious types that were so clever as children our contemporaries found us a little odd. That oddness is what made us a match though we have such differing backgrounds.

We are careful with money but it is a choice not a necessity and I’m grateful for that having had a financially tough childhood.

From what I can gather it’s the aspiring middle classes that are obsessed with class indicators. It seems to show a fragility in the sense of self.

I think working to earn money is better than inheriting it. Inheriting money is an accident of birth, nothing more.