Middle Class/Upper middle class most frugal with money (in a good way!)

[Montana7]

Out of our friends with dc the same age as ours the most middle class & upper middle seem to be the most frugal & love a bargain.. Many are very high earners yet dc wear second hand clothes, uniforms, the families are very good with food & pride themselves on zero waste... Have great holidays think safaris, multiple ski trips pre covid but always prided themselves on getting the best deals... I think its bloody brilliant & after realising how much disposable cash DH & I fritter away especially around Christmas I aspire to be more frugal... Aibu to suggest the mc/umc appreciate the value of money more or is it just the ones we know...

@Comedycook

Being frugal is a nice hobby unless you have no choice but to be frugal...in which case, it's bloody miserable!

I agree with this. Like Prince Charles running his Aston Martin on wine. Or my well off friend enjoying growing veg on her allotment. Lots of people enjoy charity shop buying. I know people who see it as a fun day out to scour all the charity shops for bargains. Great hobby.

I have noticed some of this

I knew someone who always complained she was skint but ate at Pret every day and always had nails, hair and eyelashes done

Whereas I would never eat out, do nails and hair etc myself so I can afford what I would consider more important longterm things

I do find it strange how:

Middle class people who buy their children second hand clothes but go on fancy holidays are frugal and something to aspire to. Yet lower class people who buy their children second hand clothes but have an iPhone haven’t ‘got their priorities right’ and should be shamed.

What exactly constitutes lower/middle/upper middle? Not being goady - it flummoxes me every time. I have no clue what means you are what or why it matters at all - I also have no clue what my family is - what’s the benchmark?!

@PenguinIce

I do find it strange how:

Middle class people who buy their children second hand clothes but go on fancy holidays are frugal and something to aspire to. Yet lower class people who buy their children second hand clothes but have an iPhone haven’t ‘got their priorities right’ and should be shamed.

Yes this. Basically we are still a cap doffing nation. If posh people do something, it must be the right way.

Agree with PP on choice being the important thing - I've been frugal out of necessity, and it's awful (as well as, paradoxically, creating the desire for impulsive spending - I think there is some research on this, that poverty can lead to short-term financial decisions that don't make sense overall). I am now frugal out of choice, and it doesn't have the same feeling of shame and gloom. Shame can also lead people to buy things they can't afford, to make poverty less visible.

My problem is with middle class people (often with inherited assets ime, vs people who have done well for themselves) who aren't aware of the difference above, and who judge people for not being frugal, as if anyone who buys new clothes is an idiot or anyone who doesn't want to wear a holey jumper has some personality deficit. They don't see that it's their (frequently unearned and therefore undeserved) wealth that means they don't care how they look, not their bohemian frugality "ethic"

I know a lot of people who are wealthy and with it have a sort of carelessness towards how others view them.

The headteacher at my last school was extremely posh - an ex public school boy. He would regularly turn up with unwashed hair, holes in his ratty jumpers, drove an ancient fiesta.

I think it stems from having nothing to prove.

There are lots of generalisations here, I think @Ninkanink sums it up nicely. However I think there should be more awareness that lots of wealthy people are tight with things to help people with less not feel embarrassed about 2nd hand etc. we’re not super wealthy but after bills we have £2000 spare, I am very careful with it - I always look for 2nd hand versions of things, or ask the ‘do we really need/want it’ question, partly because once you’ve spent money you’ve lost that wealth forever. In our instance although we have lots of money now, we don’t have rich parents behind us and I know that situations can change rapidly, hence why we’re cautious. I think there are people (not poor people, but people with some spare money each month) who could be in a better financial position if they had more of a ‘when it’s gone it’s gone’ mindset.

It stems from power and arrogance. Who cares what others think of them? They cant be fired from a job. Because of their wealth, they won't be socially ostracised.
It is because there are zero consequences.

Also when you have a lot you don't want to spend it because you want to preserve it

When you don't have a lot you spend the little you have because why not - there's no less of losing or building something bigger

@Hollyhead

There are lots of generalisations here, I think *@Ninkanink* sums it up nicely. However I think there should be more awareness that lots of wealthy people are tight with things to help people with less not feel embarrassed about 2nd hand etc. we’re not super wealthy but after bills we have £2000 spare, I am very careful with it - I always look for 2nd hand versions of things, or ask the ‘do we really need/want it’ question, partly because once you’ve spent money you’ve lost that wealth forever. In our instance although we have lots of money now, we don’t have rich parents behind us and I know that situations can change rapidly, hence why we’re cautious. I think there are people (not poor people, but people with some spare money each month) who could be in a better financial position if they had more of a ‘when it’s gone it’s gone’ mindset.

You only have £2000 left after bills. Okay....

@BigYellowHat

What only one yacht, I bet it’s only a 50 footer too?! My 50 footer is my spare one, I’ve got a 200 foot one and an aeroplane to take me to Waitrose 😂

Dahling Waitrose is so full of plebs these days.....it's Harrods hampers for me and my LOs.

Wealthy people aren’t allowed to be thrifty according to MN. Only those who are true poor can do so. On the other hand, wealthy people aren’t allowed to spend money on expensive things either. How dare they drop a grand on a pram when that’s more money than people earn in a month. But if they buy it second hand, that’s not living frugally because they also spent a million on their house.

As a few pp have said, I choosing to save a few £ on some things (either to be more eco friendly, or to afford luxuries) is very different from having very little to spend on anything.

I know someone who is well off and always shops around for the best deals and rarely buys things like takeaway coffees but spends £££ on holidays, theatre trips, high end restaurants, expensive items for her home etc. She is very sneery about some people at work who have very little income but 'waste' it on taking the DC to McDonalds/TV streaming packages etc. She can't see that for them these things are small luxuries- the money they would save if the stopped buying the occasional burger would never be enough for them to have a week in a fancy hotel like she does several times a year

You only have £2000 left after bills. Okay....

PP didn’t say “only”. That’s your judgement coming in to play.

@NearlyAHoarder

I think that that's because quite often they don't have any money.

Middle class people who over extend themselves with their house (incredibly common) then have to wander past you and ask you if you're planning to eat the other half of that sandwich. (TRUE story)

or like you say, they are determined to keep their dogs or their horses even though really it's a bit of a pinch.

This is spot on. When I was on a low income and lived in a council house, I had a friend who was an outrageous snob. She lived in an expensive listed period property, had relatives who paid for her children's expensive pre-school classes and phone contract, which I always thought was odd, but she would frequently ask me to lend her money for £1 baby groups or charity shop buys and I'd buy her lunch and coffees often as she had no money. I would give her all our hand me downs, clothes for her children, and herself. She would constantly lament at the unfairness that my family on tax credits had more disposable income than hers, when we earned less. No matter how much we discussed it she just couldn't figure out it was their mortgage and newer cars as the obvious difference. At the time we could afford day trips and holidays because we couldn't afford a mortgage. (Years later, now we have a higher income and have bought a house, our money is much tighter, and we were very careful to go way under our mortgage offer. If we hadn't I honestly don't know how we would pay the bills, but I appreciate this is an advantageous position and wouldn't dream of morning to a low income friend about this!)

As opposed to what, OP? Foolish working classes that don’t know the value of money?

@nansbigpants this is a good point. Her 'little luxuries' would be out of reach. The equivalent are things like new trainers, meal out, etc. Which she only thinks are unworthy because she can afford more.

The only UMC people I knew actually believed they were in dire poverty, even though they had a huge bank balance and multi million pound property portfolio. They were constantly lamenting the price of (fairly ordinary) things and at Christmas got an actual mumsnet stocking with a satsuma, some nuts and a few books from a charity shop.

Many middle and upper middle class people are up to their eyeballs in debt and haven’t got into the habit of managing money appropriately. Buying second hand everything just to pay for an expensive safari holiday or to keep horses isn’t my idea of effective money management - it means you can’t afford the expensive things.

@BoredZelda

You only have £2000 left after bills. Okay....

PP didn’t say “only”. That’s your judgement coming in to play.

Yes true, she didnt say that. But budgeting on £2000 a month after all bills isn't having to be frugal by any stretch of the imagination.

@PenguinIce

I do find it strange how:

Middle class people who buy their children second hand clothes but go on fancy holidays are frugal and something to aspire to. Yet lower class people who buy their children second hand clothes but have an iPhone haven’t ‘got their priorities right’ and should be shamed.

True. Similar to Grammar/Private School smart uniform and strict rules = admirable Comp smart uniform and strict rules = got their priorities wrong/ideas above their station /trying to be like private schools

Why can't people accept that everyone chooses to spend their money differently, people have different views on necessities and like to save in different areas!

The obsession with class on here is utterly ridiculous...it's literally bloody daily now!!

Isnt this was the problem with the economy and not a good thing at all?

It is why trickle down economics doesn't work. The rich hoard money. Poorer people with little or no saving put their money back into the economy.

I think it's very easy to make a CHOICE to wear 2nd hand. When you know you have enough money to buy brand new clothes - it's a luxury to choose not to
I'm not sure it's that. Many people with money are not money or luxury driven. They settle for cheaper just because they don't see the value or point of spending for what meets their requirement.

I spend more money on items that provide an added benefit and better quality. I don't see the point of spending more when more is only the replica of cheaper but for the brand.

It's a matter of principle rather than money.