Middle Class/Upper middle class most frugal with money (in a good way!)

[Montana7]

Out of our friends with dc the same age as ours the most middle class & upper middle seem to be the most frugal & love a bargain.. Many are very high earners yet dc wear second hand clothes, uniforms, the families are very good with food & pride themselves on zero waste... Have great holidays think safaris, multiple ski trips pre covid but always prided themselves on getting the best deals... I think its bloody brilliant & after realising how much disposable cash DH & I fritter away especially around Christmas I aspire to be more frugal... Aibu to suggest the mc/umc appreciate the value of money more or is it just the ones we know...

@CSJobseeker

I gave 20 quid to put in pot as it was an "open" amount, had coffee after with one of the high earning mums & she asked me to pass on a fiver to the mum who was collecting... Also grumbling about having to give 3 other fivers for her other kids collections... I put 20 into each of my kids collections as I assumed that's what the others would do.. ( v affluent state school)

Did you seriously think the class gift would be something that cost £600?!? I mean, really?

That's what 30 x £20 is, and if you're a high earner you should be able to work that out.

I have to say I read @Montana7's post as a sign of insecurity -- that she felt she needed to match what she imagined other parents at the 'v affluent' school were going to put into the teacher's present fund, whereas the other mother was happy to give far less (and to hand the amount over publicly via a third party) because she wasn't second-guessing how much others would give and worrying about being judged as mean.

@FanGirlX

I'm a single mum but in a professional "middle class" job and am paid about twice the average wage.

The bulk of my money goes on a mortgage because I wanted a house in a nice area with good schools. I drive a 10 year old car (mid size German brand). I tend to buy quality but make it last - some of my practical coats and boots are 5 plus years old. I don't care about designer clothes and expensive beauty treatments, just get the basics done - hair cut and colour, pedicure, brows. Do everything else myself at home. Spend a bit on good quality outdoor gear, running shoes, hiking boots because they get a lot of use.

No horses. Can sail but don't have a boat, may buy a small sailing boat when DD is older, if she takes to sailing. No multiple ski trips though 😂. DD and I are planning a foreign holiday and a U.K. holiday this year. Plus a few weekends away.

Think I'm pretty frugal on food and clothes. Food shop is mostly Aldi but buy stuff at M&S and Booths too.

Think I'm lower middle class, due to being a one income family. If I had a DP earning a similar amount, then we'd maybe be upper middle class. I don't really put much thought into it, as long as DD and I are comfortable and happy.

This is where individual opinion comes into play.

5 plus years old is not really old to many people
a pedicure is not really a basic
ditto brows possibly even hair ( although I draw the line at that 😂 )

Everyone makes choices .

They’re not being frugal. They are spending an absolute fortune maintaining their lifestyle.

These people may buy the odd bag of second hand clothes for their children but overall they will spend more than the average on clothing their children. You know they will purchase good quality waterproofs, coats, shoes including things like walking boots. If their children need anything it can be bought immediately at whatever price is convenient.

The well off have absolutely no idea how little disposable income the majority of families have so you simply cannot take it seriously when they tell you they ‘don’t spend much’.

@Blueeyedgirl21

Zero waste but going on multiple ski trips and safaris etc makes them sound dense

Your comment makes you sound jealous.

@Montana7

Adding in the same families have horses & multiple dogs which ard expensive to keep but they are frugal in every other way..

Frugal or tight?

I think that being frugal can become a hobby for those who have enough money that its not actually going to cause them a hardship should they not be able to find a cheap deal or an item second hand.

Charity shopping, searching auction sites, visiting multiple supermarkets are all time consuming things, the stress of doing all that and then maybe still not getting the shoes your kids need must be crippling. Middle/upper class people can be frugal as a hobby because there is enough money to just go to Clarks if all else fails.

@Hawaiiinthemorning not at all I’ve been skiing and I’m crap and I’ve travelled all over the place, just think it’s hilarious when people claim to care about the environment and then travel by plane multiple times a year and do things which are known to be problematic both ethno-socially and environmentally like safaris

@Fimofriend

Exactly, *@vivainsomnia*. Both DH and I have good incomes and we just don't care about brand name clothes or what the latest gadget is. This is why we could afford a nice, big house. If we spent money on our clothes, hair and gadgets like two of my SILs we wouldn't have been able to afford the nice house.

One of my SILs has straight out complained that it is unfair, but while we got master's degrees in hard core very tough academic subjects and spent 60-80 hours a week studying, she studied to become a nursery nurse and it was only for two years and not even 20 hours a week. (Cue her whining about how boooooring we were). Now she spends £150 a month on her hair, at least £200 on clothes and always need to have the latest gadgets and it is so unfair that she can't afford a big house. Meanwhile, no one in our family has ever owned an iPhone. I cut everyone's hair. We have several items of clothing that is approx. 20 years old. My old laptop was 8 years old before I got a new one.

The other SIL likes to comment on our vacation with a bitter remark about how they can't afford vacations. She has a kitchen that is practically science fiction! It is always the latest new gadgets in there. In some cases things we didn't even know existed. They have a big house in a cheap area but have spent a lot on improving and decorating it
And she still buys lots of brand name clothing and new gadgets for their children even though they are in their twenties and haven't lived with them for years.

People spend money on objects that lose value. SIL, spends a fortune on makeup (£250 pm), gadgets, etc. These expenditures have zero intrinsic value.

On the other hand, we invest money in our house, my vehicle is a business expense (Tax relief). Entertainment/holidays is always an offer or a deal.
This month I've exchanged some current electronic goods, speakers and amp, upgraded by selling mine and buying second hand.

Clothes we buy and sell on Vinted.

A jumper with a horse on the front makes no difference to my appearance. People are thick, but this feeling of desirability is what keeps the economy going.

This idea that a big telly or a label makes a person more valuable is a lie.
Vive la Frugal.

@Hawaiiinthemorning but then again maybe I’m too jaded from working with extremely deprived young people who come to us with shoes two sizes to small having not eaten for three days and are being forced to sell drugs to make a bit of money for their siblings to come on a thread about oh so Jolly rich folk who prioritize taking Sebby and Samara skiing over horrible nouveau things like Ralph Lauren tracksuits when there’s some lovely second hand bits in the village chazza!

my gosh, keeping up with the XYZ is so exhausting

People spend money on objects that lose value.
SIL, spends a fortune on makeup (£250 pm), gadgets, etc.
These expenditures have zero intrinsic value.

This month I've exchanged some current electronic goods, speakers and amp, upgraded by selling mine and buying second hand.

Why are your SIL's gadgets a waste of money, while yours are sensible purchases that you can sell on? This makes no sense, so it's just you being judgemental.

my vehicle is a business expense (Tax relief)

You must be aware that putting a car through your business simply isn't an option for most people.

One theory why UMC and MC may seem to spend more on consumer goods. Consumer goods have a fairly low unit cost compared to things like skiing, holidays, private school fees and property. Even if a poor person gets her hair done in a salon once a month for £100, that is £1200 per year. My tickets to fly back home cost £1000 for 2- long haul flight; and a poor person isn't going to afford a holiday to such a destination just by cutting back on spending for hair, let alone scrimping on buying a new dress from ASOS or forgoing some pub lunches. Ditto for property, most deposits nowadays can be as much as 70k (that was my deposit); you would never be able to save that much if you have a low income. However for someone with a decent income, downgrading your lifestyle might be what enables you to increase your deposit to qualify for a favourable mortgage rate as even a 1% larger deposit can make a difference. If you already have the money for flights, a few hundred saved on new clothes for the kids can go a long way to making your holiday more enjoyable.

It is much more worthwhile to save if you have more money as you would be able to invest on more worthwhile things than consumer goods which would be unfashionable or destined for the charity shop in a few years. Also poorer people may live in a more precarious situation; they may not be able to afford to buy new clothes tomorrow if they lose their jobs so they might as well buy new clothes now while they can. MC people can always buy new clothes (or second hand clothes) if they want to. The advice that Argentinians are giving to Americans regarding sky high inflation is to buy everything on the day you are paid, because you will not be able to afford it tomorrow.

My impressions of things are that the less money people have the more they seem to be sucked into buying loads of temporary crap - THE trainer of the moment , THE hoodie , THE eyebrows , THE eyelash lift , THE brand clothing , THE phone. What is it that this stuff brings them? They emulate the instas and the influencers who get all this crap free . They are brainwashed into thinking that they have to have this serum or whatever thing is on whatever FB group. I remember a friend of mine being horrified (as was I ) when she found out that her new wealthy MIL bought bras secondhand. Personally I sell but have never bought clothes secondhand - it's just my preference . I'm older and there is no way I have come to this stage of my life to buy my weekly groceries at Aldi or Lidl. As I said above , different strokes.

@Montana7

As my DH always says "that's why they can afford to go skiing because they priortise this over other luxuries"..

I don't understand that, the reason that anyone without unlimted income affords anything is because they don't spend their money on something else.

How is that anything other than stating the obvious?

*few hundred saved from buying old clothes for the kids.

Compelling argument that kids can't tell the difference between old and new clothes, but would remember the holiday... Poor people can't really afford the fancy holiday.

@MrsWalrus

I know a lot of people who are wealthy and with it have a sort of carelessness towards how others view them.

The headteacher at my last school was extremely posh - an ex public school boy. He would regularly turn up with unwashed hair, holes in his ratty jumpers, drove an ancient fiesta.

I think it stems from having nothing to prove.

This is exactly it. They don’t feel like they need to show they have money so they make more frugal choices on things that clogger people can see.

I don't understand that, the reason that anyone without unlimited income affords anything is because they don't spend their money on something else.

How is that anything other than stating the obvious?

I agree that it's obvious, but plenty of people on this thread don't appear to understand it.

Plenty of people seem to be labouring under the delusion that making one spending choice (spending on skiing holiday and private school fees, but spend less on clothes) is somehow more frugal or more virtuous than another spending choice.

The kind of frugal that the OP is describing doesn’t sound like actual frugality to me -;it’s being frugal in order to get something else as well.

If I analyse myself and my spending.
My salary pays all my bills and I have an automatic direct debit into my savings account each month. I live alone and don’t have a credit card, I live off what I have.
I certainly can’t afford everything I want in life though, I have to make choices like everyone does.
Life can be cut short with no warning and there’s things in life I want to do and places I want to see. So this is what I aim for and in order to do that I have to be frugal In other places.
So I shop at Aldi mostly, and I search eBay high and low for clothes brands I love on the cheap. I’m much better now at FB market and have sourced remaining household items I need from there and so forth. I’ve made good money selling my unwanted items. I go running instead of the gym, I meal plan carefully to avoid overspending. I stock up on things when they go on offer.
So to many, I look like a nice and sensible frugal person looking after their money.
Except it’s so that I can afford to go on holiday and do things I want to do. The money I save from the above means I can travel to see my friend who lives further away, I can afford some day trip and I can save to go on holiday each year. Any money left in my current account the day before pay day is transferred to my savings, so I aim for this to be as much as possible.

So I’m not really frugal in the right sense and I don’t think many are. It’s a means to an end for many. Owning a horse and going skiing and on safaris is not frugal, it’s just a choice of where to spend money.
I don’t ski or safari or have any animals. My holidays are certainly not 5 star. But it’s what I like to do and to do that I have to save somewhere. I could buy all my clothes brand new from the shops I love and shop in M&S food and have the best Sky package etc but then I wouldn’t be able to travel or see friends anywhere near as much.

Middle class and upper middle class that OP describe aren’t so much being frugal as they are just making choices to enable the, to have everything they want in life.

Actual true frugal living is not having enough to live in 5he first place and making it stretch to cover what you need. I admire it and copy many ideas but ultimately it’s so I can put some money away, not for survival sake. Not anymore anyway. The last year is the first time in my life I’m bringing home more than £18k in income and I can definitely breathe better now.

So no I don’t think the upper middle appreciate money more necessarily. I might now count as middle as a newly qualified teacher and I certainly appreciate every penny I have!

@onlychildhamster

*few hundred saved from buying old clothes for the kids.

Compelling argument that kids can't tell the difference between old and new clothes, but would remember the holiday... Poor people can't really afford the fancy holiday.

This is true.

If you are skint, it's a choice between nice clothes for the kids or spending that money on other essentials. You're not choosing between nicer clothes or a holiday.

"My impressions of things are that the less money people have the more they seem to be sucked into buying loads of temporary crap - THE trainer of the moment , THE hoodie , THE eyebrows , THE eyelash lift , THE brand clothing , THE phone. What is it that this stuff brings them?"

Status. Satellites are an example. They brought status at the beginning, but then became something that everyone in working class areas had and were then something others looked down on.

I think if you are used to spending all your income because you live hand to mouth and then come in to a bit of money, you are more likely to "fritter" it away than people who grew up with money.

Footballers and lottery winners tend to live less frugal than the upper classes.

On a smaller scale, my uncle who has been skint his entire live inherited a couple of hundred thousand and spend it quickly.

I'm not sure it is better or worse. A lot is different spending preferences. I drive a cheap car and fritter money away over Xmas because that's how I prefer to spend my money. If I was an extreme couponer for five years, maybe I could buy a range rover but I don't want a range rover.

Similarly, there is more of a dynastic attitude to leaving money behind among upper classes which is understandable if you have inherited a lot of money yourself.

I come from an UMC background and I agree with you, OP. It’s not really a matter of actually being frugal, they will spend money on things that are important to them and that they see as worthy to actually spend money on. They also don’t give a shit about what others might think of them because they have nothing to prove. One of my relatives will happily spend what is for some people a months salary on antique books because he loves them but would walk around with holes in his shoes if his wife didn’t step in and buy him new ones. Just an example.

@onlychildhamster I have an old house, although not grand. Buying older was cheaper than new build and larger rooms. But I want to be comfortable. So i want carpets, rugs, sofas that are comfortable. I don't care about trends or latest fashions, but I don't want to live in a dump either.

@IamGusFring I can see my mortgage balance decreasing when I overpay every month! That feeling is better than getting a new eyelash serum (not even sure it would actually make my eyelashes grow!). DH and I both like our consumer goods, but I took DH to a viewing for a 3 bed flat in a lovely area yesterday and we both knew this could be ours v soon if we earned more and continued overpaying. We knew more trips to Aldi and going to waitrose less would facilitate that; honestly once the food is in the fridge, we can't tell the difference; Waitrose is just often in more 'convenient' locations. I love my second hand dresses just as much as my new dresses. I can tell the difference between my expensive makeup and cheap makeup sadly, i wish that wasn't true, but have given up on posh skincare as its all the same really. I don't need an Iphone, my xiaomi works very well.

But if you are living hand to mouth, you probably don't have such a worthwhile goal to look forward to.

@Comedycook

Being frugal is a nice hobby unless you have no choice but to be frugal...in which case, it's bloody miserable!

Exactly - Poverty Tourism as Sleaford mods put it.