To feel 0 sympathy-24 hours in police custody *MNHQ adding content warning for distressing information regarding a child*

[Menmy3]

AIBU to have absolutely no sympathy for poor baby Teddie’s useless mother. Going from one man to the next allowing one into her home that was clearly abusing her children and not protecting them. I know she was the victim of DV and usually I’d be advocating for her 100% but she showed no emotion, no remorse. Those poor babies.

So sorry you had to go through all that @SafeMove and you've dealt with it amazingly.

And I entirely agree that the failure to resource preventative and therapeutic work adequately is a political decision. People who have been shocked and horrified by this and other recent cases need to think about that next time they vote.

Pretty sure Kane has some additional needs which is why he had an appropriate adult with him, I don’t believe it was due to his mental health, more due to the fact he may have needed things explaining to him in more simple terms.

Just place marking until I've seen the programme.

Or you could just click 'watch' on the thread?

In an effort to protect children before they are killed would the following be possible ——— SS ( or police) receive a concern for a child, the first action is for the child to be seen by a doctor and Xrayed. So often we hear the baby or child is killed and has earlier fractures which went undetected. They would show on X-ray and child could be safeguarded.

@stillvicarinatutu

I was just coming here to say something about this because I'm a police officer

I sincerely hope to go now that people can see how difficult it is to try to protect some women from domestic violence and how incredibly harrowing it is for the police officers involved in such terrible investigations .

The police get the blame so often for failures.
If this programme gave one minuscule iota of an idea abkut how difficult it can be to try and help some people who refuse to engage , or how terrible it is to try and safeguard women and children when the victim constantly refuses to engage - and the perpetrators just get away with this shot again and again - then I'm glad this was aired .

This! Waves at fellow copper

I’m halfway through episode one, and what shocked me initially was how cold and unemotional she was in her initial interview, referring to Teddie as ‘the baby’ a number of times.

I don’t know the ins and outs but the police have said that calls were made to social care and police, yet it sounds like there were no follow ups? Yet from reading this thread it wounds like someone only needed to ask one of the older siblings and they would have disclosed what was going on. Clearly there has been a major major fuck up, and from the faces of the other police officers in the room when the lead detective said that neighbours had reported to police and social care, they know there was a fuck up.

Just horrifying

I think she was severely trauma bonded to him.

@Suzanne999

In an effort to protect children before they are killed would the following be possible ——— SS ( or police) receive a concern for a child, the first action is for the child to be seen by a doctor and Xrayed. So often we hear the baby or child is killed and has earlier fractures which went undetected. They would show on X-ray and child could be safeguarded.

Have you any idea how many get reported. Unfeasible to do this , and tbh acting in this way may cause people not to report

[quote Ecosaurus]@Royalbloo I am sorry you've experienced abuse.

Serious Case Reviews do not happen because agencies did their roles well - they happen because there have been serious failings.

The cynic in me thinks there's probably some ulterior motives why this case was used in the documentary series - it didn't need to be; at the end of the day the police would have had complete control on what footage was released and what wasn't - and how the story was aired. But yes, some of the police officers were great. It's interesting social services featured at no point during the entire two hour documentary... I find that very odd given the outcome.[/quote]
The programme follows the case from a police perspective so it wouldn't really mention SS

@BruceBogtrottersWife

Sorry to ask, I'm not familiar with TV-is this on catchup anywhere please?

C4 24 hours on police custody. There are two episodes There was am earlier episodes that centered on two cases of possible " shaken baby " deaths too.

I'm beginning to wonder did anyone watch the same programmes I've been watching.

Clearly the mother of Teddie was in a coercive, controlling and abusive relationship. Clearly Kane was a man who had a volatile temper. Clearly the neighbours were fed up to the back teeth with Kane's behaviour and most were incredibly worried about the safety of Teddie's mum Luci. Her disconnect is a huge red flag when it comes to an abusive relationship.

The serious case review will be about a number of failings, most importantly the failure to take seriously the numerous calls to the police regarding the abuse of Kane previously to Teddie's death.

I have a lot of sympathy for Luci. I hope she and her children find a safe and lovely place to heal and have a happier life - with the help of her family.

Sorry the abuse that Kane did previous to Teddie's appalling death.

What I can't understand is why Teddie has the surname of Kane and not his mother.

It's disgusting that Kane Mitchell was given so much leeway, and obviously so by the OP, when he committed such horrendous injuries on a baby that probably had them from the first weeks of his life until he died 11 weeks later.

Rest in Peace Teddie. xx

Why can't you understand his surname.... his birth was registered and at that time they thought Kane was bio father

@placemats I watched what you did.

I agree with a lot of what you said, except the neighbours being fed up - I think they were fed up with the lack of safeguarding rather than fed up with what they were hearing. They reported out of concern for those children and Luci, in the hope something would be taken seriously.

The court could not prove the mother knew - and they had a lot of information we don’t.

There is nowhere near enough support for DV victims, they've only recently started to recognise children as victims! As someone who grew up watching my father, then stepfather physically abuse my mum and verbally/mentally abuse me (plus other abuse like not allowing me to wash and withholding necessary toiletries like deodorant and sanitary products) which resulted in years of bullying at school, zero self esteem and led to a string of abusive relationships there is no support for people whos problems don't fit into a neat little box either. The NHS offers you 6 sessions of counselling! (it used to be 8 and now it's even less) how do you even begin to unpack a lifetime of abuse in that time? There is no support to get out of abusive relationships either, we are all very aware of the lack of homes available, the hoops you have to jump through to get benefits, I have no faith that anyone would help me to leave and what family would I turn to? The parents who let me down consistently and see no issue with abuse because they did it themselves? I don't think anyone who hasn't been through it can truly comprehend how hard it is, the people I know who have escaped all had support systems and/or decent jobs and career prospects which not everyone has. It's so easy to say someone should just get out but putting that into practice isn't so easy, I can't imagine what I would do if my children were targeted but I can only be grateful I'm not in that position.

@placemats I think the confusion for many people is that it was such a new relationship, she’d known Kane less than a year when he murdered her baby and within that year she’d moved him in to her children’s home.
It was only a few weeks into the relationship when he was sending her abusive texts and yet she still moved him in and let him terrorise and assault her young children.

It's a cultural norm to give the children the name of the father, I don't know why this is so baffling to MNers

@Ecosaurus

The court could not prove the mother knew - and they had a lot of information we don’t.

Whether they could prove she knew or not, I find it impossible to believe that as an experienced mother she would not have noticed there was something very wrong with her baby.

With broken ribs and collarbones, spinal injuries, throughout the entirety of his sort life, there would have been bruising, he would have been reactive to being held or touched, would not have been able to move his arms properly etc.

She can claim she didn’t know all she likes, and of course no one can ‘prove’ otherwise, but I will never believe that she didn’t know her tiny baby was injured. She just chose not to see it.

It didn't say if her other DC were removed from her?

I hope they're safe.

I was replying to a now deleted post…

I had an extremely violent and abusive father and my "escape" was to get into an equally abusive relationship. I've had a lot of therapy in the years since and the fact is I was trying to "rewrite history". The child in me knew my father couldn't love me because, even as a child, I knew you don't hurt the ones you love. But how do you deal with that? So if I could take a bad man (like my father) and somehow "make" him stop hurting me I could prove that I was lovable after all. And of course every time my partner did hurt me he would then shower me with love and promise it was the last time. And I so wanted to believe him. Because then I would have "won". This may not make sense to any of you but it's how I felt (after years of therapy/reflection I realised this).

I don't condone the mothers part in this. Despite my numerous issues I can't imagine putting my child in danger. But the show ended when she was formally charged. We don't know what came out afterwards, prior to their court appearances. Having worked in courts myself there must have been an enormous amount of mitigation for her to get a community sentence. We don't know what that was so i don't think we can judge. As the officer said, none of it will bring Teddie back. So rather than feel anger for her, him and others who commit these crimes, my thoughts are with the children.