To feel 0 sympathy-24 hours in police custody *MNHQ adding content warning for distressing information regarding a child*

[Menmy3]

AIBU to have absolutely no sympathy for poor baby Teddie’s useless mother. Going from one man to the next allowing one into her home that was clearly abusing her children and not protecting them. I know she was the victim of DV and usually I’d be advocating for her 100% but she showed no emotion, no remorse. Those poor babies.

stillvivarinstutu really that’s not my experience of police officers holding back if someone is shouting abuse at them or threatening them. They seem to give scum like this far more leeway than they do other criminals.

@Idontwannadance1 - exactly. I am usually pretty open minded and able to see the cycle of abuse, systemic family disruption, intergenerational patterns etc. I even felt some sympathy for Frankie Smith, the mother of Star Hobson, much to a lot of people's disgust. I could not summon up an ounce of sympathy for this woman. She is in my eyes an enabler. She knew how aggressive and angry he was, she experienced it firsthand and saw him abuse her DC and left her baby with him. She touched him in comfort more then she touched her dying baby in the hospital. I had my ribs and jaw broken, was bitten and had regular black eyes from my exH. Just seeing my toddlers look worried about an injury H gave me, made me leave. ExH never even raised his voice to our DC in the 5 years we lived with him but I couldn't emotionally abuse them - they saw my injuries when the abuse got really bad, I knew this was emotionally abusive towards them, so I left. That was scary enough for them and I had to take action and get away.

100% agree!

Most of us on here are familiar with abuse patterns and how the perpetrator carefully grooms and tricks the victim, and only shows his true colours when she's unable to leave.

None of that applies here. His text messages turned nasty after one month. She moved him in and knew he hit her kids. She had lived in that flat for four years, she did not need him to pay the bills or make her look respectable, as he did neither of these things.

She wasn't acting, in my view. She genuinely thinks her neighbours are malicious liars and that Kane 'ain't done nuthin' because she truly thinks it's fine to live like that.

She wasn't just given a chance to speak, she was removed from his presence and urged to speak. Her reaction was teenage petulance as if the people trying to protect children were her annoying parents.

A neighbour has posted on fb that they had a house party while out on bail. I can only imagine this is true. Both of them were entirely self serving.

@Ecosaurus

I hope one of the questions that will be asked in the SCR is why the police did not charge him with domestic violence much, much earlier - prior to Teddie's death - as they do have the power to do this without the victim's consent.

I wondered about this as well. Seems like there was a lot of evidence of his abusive nature. He should have been arrested and moved elsewhere with a restraining order so he couldn’t go near her or her kids.

The only true emotion I saw from Kane was in his anger. His crying etc looked like a poor attempt at a GCSE drama exercise. Her? I can’t work out at all.

I was so angry at the whole situation I can't believe she didn't get a prison sentence for allowing that horrible monster around her baby and her other children RIP baby teddie and I hope those other children are kept well away from her she shouldn't be allowed to be a mother both complete scum I cried my eyes out listening to the injuries that were inflicted on that poor baby and when they interviewed one of the older children it was heartbreaking 💔 😭

I am not defending the mother at all but it is very easy to judge without acknowledging the cause of such situations and until we do we will never improve things. Why is a woman willing to accept that treatment from a man and put his needs above her child's. I would like to bet that she has a long history of abuse from the men in her life. Until we put the right work in with victims of abuse early in their life, probably as children we will continue to create women who allow this to happen. The care system is broken and does not provide the right support for victims early on. The same is probably true for the father - he probably had abuse as a child too. Having said that the other thing we don't do is look at those who have had abuse as a child but overcome this to be a success and to be successful parents. We can learn a lot from these wonderful people. The difference is that they will probably have had someone in their lives who loved them and advocated for them.

Some of the hardest shifts I ever had on an icu was when we had young babies who had been abused by mums partner.
It was always the same story. She met him, then within a few months he had moved in. The baby always 'became ill' while partner was looking after them . Many of these babies were either brain dead or so damaged that if they survived they would be severely disabled. Yet these women, even when faced with the evidence that their partner had probably caused these injuries, would still be seen meeting them outside the hospital while they were on bail. How can you sit next to your dying. critically ill baby knowing that the injuries had been inflicted on them and yet still your main concern is about meeting your partner who SS had told you not to go near.

So as an important women’s forum what would you suggest to the government to stop this constant “ learn lessons” from these cases ( I hate that statement)

Such as

1. education in schools regarding abusive behaviour and options for help ?
2. an extra penny on income tax for high earners to be dedicated especially to child protection agencies?
3. perhaps in some circumstances we should be more judgemental about some life choices? Stop making excuses for some people.
4. as there are some posters on here that did make the difficult decisions to leave , what would have helped you most ? Stronger laws regarding non molestation orders for example ?
5. a stronger link between police and schools and social services?

Just interested in opinions on a practical solution as I feel for all the agencies as well that have to deal with cases like this.And the poor children involved. And the brave neighbours as well .

@Zippea

The only true emotion I saw from Kane was in his anger. His crying etc looked like a poor attempt at a GCSE drama exercise. Her? I can’t work out at all.

I've watched a lot of 'Faking it' and my partner and I watched his behaviour and identified a number of the 'tells' that we've seen explained on 'Faking it'. Did others notice how his voice changed at specific times? He went into a very childlike voice when, for example, he was in the wheelchair.

This is a very dangerous, volatile man - I really hope he is kept in prison for a very long time.

Sorry to ask, I'm not familiar with TV-is this on catchup anywhere please?

@reesewithoutaspoon

I know a case similar to this . Her young child saw violence and drug dealing etc. She was offered endless help ,accommodation etc if she would stop seeing him. Instead she got pregnant again and both children were removed in the end. She blames everyone else except herself.

I've only watched the first episode and simply could not comprehend her lack of emotion and failure to protect her baby and other children. Once the police were called out and that neighbours footage was heard, he should have been charged with DV and barred from living with her and the children. It is hard to comprehend her reaction, or lack of, but then I had a good upbringing and have never been a victim of domestic violence, so therefore I wouldn't really understand. I don't know what it's like to feel that threatened and dominated and it seemed to me that she had even given up thinking for herself. There was nothing left.

The whole programme was a redit to the Police who you could see were so badly affected by this case, To have to deal with that then go home and be mum and dad to their own families takes some doing I couldn;t do that job, The sentences were in my opinion unjust and rediculously lenient, That woman Lucci,could be called a lot of things but sadly she could never be called a mother,she has no capacity of what that means,its clear to see. I hope all the kids left have been removed or will be, She is as culpable if not more so that he is for covering up in my view,

@BruceBogtrottersWife

Sorry to ask, I'm not familiar with TV-is this on catchup anywhere please?

All 4 ..its on there, to catch up

I looked for this, and found 24 Hours in Police Custody S12E06 Holding the Baby on Daily motion

( www.dailymotion.com/video/x85apwx )

Another couple, she is very young, and he looks smug (laughing when arrested in the first place) "I went to the toilet" why didnt you mention it? "maybe i lied because I want to keep somethings private, like going to the toilet"

@Hotcuppatea

I can only go on what I saw on that programme, but my hunch is that she behaved that way in interview because if she allows herself to admit that Kane killed Teddie, then she also has to admit that she allowed him to. Her denial is a way of protecting herself. When she says 'he'd never do that', she's really saying 'I would never let him do that.'

Tragically she did let him do it, but her psyche can't handle that.

I really felt for the police officers too. They must be haunted by the things they see and hear.

That’s a very good point. There was such a lot going on there. The dates made it impossible for him to be the baby’s father, yet they both professed huge shock at the result of the DNA test. All those crocodile tears that he wasn’t the father yet none when the baby died.

It’s heartbreaking to think of the amount of pain that tiny baby experienced throughout his pitifully short life.

My personal opinion is that those arrested for DV should be tagged and not allowed back to the home for a set period of time (six months) or it’s an immediate prison term of a year minimum.

I’m aware this is contrary to our legal principles and we don’t have the resources to do this, but by Christ I wish we could.

I'm 27 minutes in to the first episode, the way he is shouting to be let in, i'd be terrified, what a piece of scum

His screaming abuse was absolutely chilling, I assume she has no self esteem or self worth continually exposing her DC to different men.
She had the opportunity to speak up in the first interview.
Poor Teddy, his siblings too living in terror.
They'd be reported many times too.
I think the police and SS need to stop assuming everything is okay when the home is clean and food in the fridge.

The text messages because she brought the older DC to the park, he is an animal.
She was a victim too.

continually exposing her DC to different men.

There was ZERO evidence of this from the documentary. Three children with one father, and then a fourth child with Teddy's father. At no point did it state that she had exposed her children to Teddy's father, or any other men other than their father and Kane.

I would imagine that any couple who shout 'love you babe' when one of them is arrested for a heinous crime are an immediate red flag to police. Seen it so many times on 24hrs in Police Custody.

No healthy couple behave that way. Their desperation to perform 'love' in front of witnesses to the exclusion of normal human behaviour just makes them look much more suspicious.

I can't believe she got away with a community sentence either, @Idontwannadance1. And living next door to them must have been horrific.

I've just watched both programmes, and Mitchell reminded me very much, both in looks and manner, of a former client who had a mild case of foetal alcohol syndrome. The client had that same thing of thinking he was much smarter than he actually was, and volatile reactions when he didn't get the outcome he wanted or expected from a situation.

I'll never be able to get my head round how anyone can inflict such awful violence on a child, let alone a tiny baby. And I'm glad to hear the other children are with their nice dad, although I also found myself hoping that sweet puppy has found a nice home, too.

More resources and less bureaucracy are desperately needed in child protection. I realise that there have to be checks and balances, and that the threshold for removing a child is rightly a high one, but there's got to be a better way of dealing with violent and dysfunctional families than the current system, for fuck's sake.