To feel 0 sympathy-24 hours in police custody *MNHQ adding content warning for distressing information regarding a child*

[Menmy3]

AIBU to have absolutely no sympathy for poor baby Teddie’s useless mother. Going from one man to the next allowing one into her home that was clearly abusing her children and not protecting them. I know she was the victim of DV and usually I’d be advocating for her 100% but she showed no emotion, no remorse. Those poor babies.

I actually don't think the Police where that great - some were, some were not. Some of the questioning from one of the police men was a bit chilling for me to watch. The fact that they only acted after a baby had died - the fact that Kane had no prior history on his records, and that the children also had no child protection notes on their records, despite multiple call outs and complaints just shows what an absolutely cluster fuck was made by all services, including the police.

Why have we not learnt it is too late to act after a child dies?

I do think sending only male officers to a domestic violence call out is one of the key things that needs to be changed in order to get more women speaking up. Women who are in DV relationships have often been abused before, and often this was at the hands of men.

I think a lot of posters are totally unaware of the impact of severe and repeated trauma on women, particularly if that starts in childhood / adolescence. This is not to excuse her behaviour - but some of it, ie. the lack of emotion, can be caused by things like Complex Trauma.

Incredibly tragic for all parties involved.

If I had been in her shoes I would barely be able to function. Just getting out of bed in the morning would have been impossible, let alone eating, washing and dressing.

She, on the other hand, had nicely done hair and makeup, beautiful nails and looked very presentable while being interviewed.

I praise the police for their calm professional manner when all they probably really wanted was to roll that wheelchair off a cliff with that f*er still sat in it 😂😂

I only saw the last 20 minutes and I will have to block every bit of it from my mind apart from that wonderful, brave child who gave auch articulate and clear testimony of ugly Kane. She knew it was wrong. Heartbreaking the whole thing.

I think she should have got a prison sentence too. At the 3nd when she was talking about how cute Teddy was —— no mention of the dozens of injuries he’d sustained. I know it’s all edited but was she questioned on all the previous injuries the baby had suffered?
The only tiny shred of hope is that she will have SS in her life for ever now.
Her child’s interview “Ugly Kane” made me shudder.
He was incredibly manipulative ( right down to needing an Appropriate Adult in his interview) and ordering the officers around after his suicide attempt. How those POs restrain themselves………

I could only hope that her older children were removed from her permanently, as any future children will.
RIP baby Teddie, you didn’t deserve the life you had.

She's pregnant again, does that mean the baby will be removed from her? Hopefully yes because she's demonstrated she can't protect her children from random blokes she happens to be shagging..

Not seen all of it but there are women up and down the country excusing they way their partners treat them and exposing their children to risk. They are just lucky their partners haven't gone as far as kane YET.

He shouts at me in front of the kids, he controls me, he hits the wall, he trusts me he just doesn't trust other people, he didn't mean to, he had a hard childhood, we walk on eggshells so he doesn't get upset, he cheats and gets angry with me if I challenge him, he calls me names, I cant leave because...I bet Lucci experienced all of this.

My DH is a Police Officer. He has been on the front line for 16 years now, dealing with the absolute scum of society. It is the same people that he has to deal with all the time. He can almost list every criminal in his area. He is moving to a role that takes him off the streets soon, because he honestly feels like he is now at the point that he could snap and actually hurt someone, he is that exasperated. It isn't natural to be around murderers, rapists and baby killers etc, talking to them, being reasonable with them, when you are seething and disgusted inside at what they have done. Imagine having to heat up a ready meal, or make a cup of tea, for someone who you know has battered their baby, when what you want to do is punch them in the face. Then come home to your family and be "normal" after the things you have seen. The mental strain on Police officers is insane.

We had a very similar case locally. Someone who knows the family well have said although the baby was clearly murdered, there's not enough evidence for the CPS to charge....... and Police assume Dad did it and Mum is covering up. They're both on bail still.

They have an older child that's been removed from them and is living with family; and she's already pregnant again.

And so the cycle continues.

She lied to the police, I'm not sure of the threshold but it might be perverting the course of justice?

Clearly she's a victim of abuse but then I can only imagine that he must be too. The total lack of humanity in him, his casual use of catastrophic violence, point to a very distressing back story. Perhaps he too could have been that small child, beaten by a strange man his mother brought home.

Both parties have reasons, but in the law and in child protection neither have excuses. They must both account for their actions and their inactions.

I feel so utterly sorry for the neighbours and friends who knew what those kids were going through but couldn't get anyone to listen.

Women can be both victims of abuse, and enablers or actively abusive themselves. Being a victim of abuse doesnt automatically give someone any special empathy or insight into abuse, and I think we expect different standards of behaviour from women.

If we want women to leave we have to provide them with the means to do so, and at the moment we just dont. D.V. shelters are desperately underfunded, and many cities just dont have them at all - many are now mixed sex and dont take children.
There is no longer a benefits and housing safety net, thats been dismantled. Women can be expected to leave their entire lives, their home, their job.

Watching him in the interview room now and he’s “crying”. It doesn’t look sincere to me. More like “shit I’ve been caught” or better make it look like I feel remorse

I think there are a lot of selfish women out there (and selfish men obviously but I’m thinking about the mums in these types of situations) where they disassociate themselves from their own children because they want what they perceive to be a good life for themselves. I’m watching it now and right at the beginning she’s talking about how she had a “good flat… nice life” etc and wishing that back. She’s not sitting there crying over her baby / other children. I think - and I say this as someone who left a horrifically abusive relationship when my dd was 6 months old, I was with her dad for 5 years - too many women are too passively willing to excuse away behaviours.

@RunningFromInsanity
Yes it was! I was hoping they went over several speed bumps on the way to the police station.

I can understand why she couldn't leave him, but couldn't she have sent the children elsewhere so they weren't subjected to Kane?
There was at least her children's father and her own father around.

It was horrific to watch this. She is as guilty as him imo. How on earth she can cover for him killing her own baby is beyond me. And to listen to her other son being interviewed was so sad.

She now has another boyfriend and is pregnant again. Surely she won’t be able to keep that child?

This excellent programme highlighted many issues, that those of us who work/volunteer in child protection see unfortunately too regularly. Domestic abuse is a very complex issue, some victims have a trauma bond with the perpetrator, which makes it very difficult for them to finish their relationship with the perpetrator. All to often victims meet their new partner via social media and very quickly, they are living together and that is when the domestic abuse start and by meeting partners on social media it can attract paedophiles.
Thank goodness for the brave neighbours who repeatedly phoned the Police and social services, but from the programme didn’t say if any of the older children were spoken to by any safeguarding professionals to garner their views, before Teddie died. In some areas, if the Police have been called to a ‘domestic’, the children’s school is notified so staff can observe the child and give the child an opportunity to speak to a trusted teacher.

The police and social workers have an incredibly hard job and they are severely underfunded.
Childcare is far far too expensive in the UK and this affects all members of society (except the very rich) -

If there were more resources available then low-income/at-risk families could use free or even obligatory day care where the children would be safe and visible to professionals in social care.

My heart goes out to all the people in this case who helped and must be permanently affected by it.

Yanbu. Her sentence was a joke. She had numerous opportunities to put her kids first but didn't

@MissTrip82

Goodness given you’re usually an advocate for women living with IPV I’m really surprised you haven’t encountered these issues before.

You don’t seem to have much understanding of the reality of abuse and what it does to its victims.

What form does your advocacy take and what training have you had?

She has been with him 8 months when the baby was born. He wasn’t even the dad and had according to neighbours had a string of men with her children before him. She didn’t care when her babies injuries were read out to her. She let him attack her children I cannot advocate for her. To me she isn’t a victim she’s a cop-conspirator

There is no other word for these people but scum. She is now out and living her life whilst her baby has no life and her surviving children will be traumatised for the rest of their lives. She deserves every bit of retribution, shame and malice that comes her way IMO. Our justice system did not provide restorative justice so I hope emotionally she hates her life every day. As for him, there are a lot of Kane's out there sadly. Thick as mud with a chip on their shoulder. A lethal combination.

We had the misfortune of living next to them, believe me she certainly dealt the same back to him. Neither of them ever have shown any remorse. Us along with other neighbours are absolutely amazed and shocked that she literally almost walked away Scot free. When she came out of her very short stay in prison she was already pregnant with another man’s child. I just pray and hope that the baby was taken away from her straight away. This truly worries me daily.

Her other 3 children are with their lovely dad, he had absolutely no idea what was happening. I’m not going to go into any other details because to us who lived next to them, we are still haunted by the way they got away with treating the children and murdering a gorgeous, helpless little baby.

Just to add, no one should feel sorry for her, she knew what he was like and she knew and allowed him to hurt her baby and to scare the other children

I hope one of the questions that will be asked in the SCR is why the police did not charge him with domestic violence much, much earlier - prior to Teddie's death - as they do have the power to do this without the victim's consent.