To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

theqentity · 2022-01-04T10:01:46+00:00

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child. What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description. Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

Drunkpanda · 04/01/2022 10:03

Sorry you're having a shit morning. They really just don't know, do they. Do you have a friend who could (gently) correct them on the app?

Saffy123456 · 04/01/2022 10:05

That sounds awful, but I was under the impression that the first 6000 of funding for SEN has to come from the school? which would be X hours of support a week and anything on top of that come from the LEA?

Sirzy · 04/01/2022 10:05

It’s amazing how many people get jealous of the provision provided so children can attend school yet don’t want to take on the battles and fights faced by the child and their parents!

Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:06

@Saffy123456

That sounds awful, but I was under the impression that the first 6000 of funding for SEN has to come from the school? which would be X hours of support a week and anything on top of that come from the LEA?

Nope, not true, it's the LA.

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Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:08

Re, the £6k that parents think their kids are being denied so Johnny Autism can learn among them: www.impacteducationsoftware.com/post/how-grand-is-6-grand

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Sirzy · 04/01/2022 10:10

@Saffy123456

That sounds awful, but I was under the impression that the first 6000 of funding for SEN has to come from the school? which would be X hours of support a week and anything on top of that come from the LEA?

Yes funding from the LA will top up the nominal £6000 which comes from the schools SEN budget. In some schools they may allocate some 1-1 without an ehcp which would come from the overall school budget BUT and it’s a big but…. Any decisions like that are made based on individual circumstances and to allow children to access the curriculum.

If a child requires additional support then it’s not unfair on others that don’t get it it’s simply making it so that child is in a better position to access what the others can. (Not for a second saying you where questioning the allocation of funds!)

drspouse · 04/01/2022 10:10

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the school has to show they are already spending the nominal £6000 to ask for additional funding. However, that will be spent on things that are shared out between other children as well (e.g. buildings, class teacher etc.).
I may be way off base here.

Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:11

@drspouse

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the school has to show they are already spending the nominal £6000 to ask for additional funding. However, that will be spent on things that are shared out between other children as well (e.g. buildings, class teacher etc.). I may be way off base here.

www.impacteducationsoftware.com/post/how-grand-is-6-grand

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Tal45 · 04/01/2022 10:12

No doubt the same parents that would be complaining if the child didn't have a 121 because they were taking more teacher time and so holding their little darling back. You'll never win with those people.

A clear explanation of SEN funding here from the rather excellent (IME) SEND.
sendadvicesurrey.org.uk/information-advice-and-support/how-is-sen-support-funded-in-schools/

Theunamedcat · 04/01/2022 10:13

When my son was sick and wasn't using his TA a parent was heard to comment how nice it was that there child got extra help (she is nt doesn't "need" extra help and support) and it's a shame they couldn't be helped like that more often so basically she wants support for my son spread out over the class not given to him some parents looked uncomfortable but many agreed with her that there children should be helped more because "due to the pandemic" their child wasn't as advanced as they should be........

SkeletonSkins · 04/01/2022 10:13

I don’t think it’s always as simple as that though. I was a Senco until fairly recently and many of our TAs were funded by school. We had several children who the LA didn’t fund, who we were going through the EHCP process for, who we felt needed additional support and so we paid in the meantime, sometimes for years at a time. And when we did get funding, it was normally between 6-8k, which doesn’t pay for a full time TA salary, so of course we topped it up.

Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:14

@Theunamedcat

When my son was sick and wasn't using his TA a parent was heard to comment how nice it was that there child got extra help (she is nt doesn't "need" extra help and support) and it's a shame they couldn't be helped like that more often so basically she wants support for my son spread out over the class not given to him some parents looked uncomfortable but many agreed with her that there children should be helped more because "due to the pandemic" their child wasn't as advanced as they should be........

Yes, I have heard this kind of passive aggressive bullshit too for three years and I'm so tired of it.

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Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:15

@SkeletonSkins

I don’t think it’s always as simple as that though. I was a Senco until fairly recently and many of our TAs were funded by school. We had several children who the LA didn’t fund, who we were going through the EHCP process for, who we felt needed additional support and so we paid in the meantime, sometimes for years at a time. And when we did get funding, it was normally between 6-8k, which doesn’t pay for a full time TA salary, so of course we topped it up.

Having taken my LA to tribunal, I am pretty well versed on SEN law and funding.

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DietrichandDiMaggio · 04/01/2022 10:15

Not always true. Many children in the school I work in have had 1-1 support before having an EHCP.

FrownedUpon · 04/01/2022 10:16

We also had some TA’s funded by the school as LA didn’t give any funding for those children. And even when the LA did put money in for support, the school had to pay the first 6k from school budget.

Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:17

@FrownedUpon

We also had some TA’s funded by the school as LA didn’t give any funding for those children. And even when the LA did put money in for support, the school had to pay the first 6k from school budget.

The schools clearly were not well versed in SEN law.

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DeepaBeesKit · 04/01/2022 10:17

I'm really sorry if you are having a hard time OP.

But in reality, it's unlikely that the entire cost of the 1-1 is being met by separately allocated ECHP funds from the local authority.

This is why nasty academy chains/high attaining schools in "naice" areas often go out of their way to be off putting to children with SEN. Schools in poorer areas with high levels of pupil premium less so, because where there's an overlap between SEN and PP the PP money can help with the budget.

StationaryMagpie · 04/01/2022 10:18

@Saffy123456

That sounds awful, but I was under the impression that the first 6000 of funding for SEN has to come from the school? which would be X hours of support a week and anything on top of that come from the LEA?

Every school has a budget that is given by the LA to provide support to students with extra needs, and yes its about £6000... its up to the school how they spend it, either on staff, equipment, support courses/therapy...etc

When a child has an EHCP, the school has to prove they cannot provide that childs support within that initial blanket budget, usually because they need 1:1 full time so as not to remove support from the other students in class.

Well.. thats how its supposed to work. A lot of schools will absorb that extra budget and tell the class TA that they are now 1:1 and still expected to support the rest of the class... then the SEN child gets in trouble for not doing their work/behavioural issues... usually things that happen when their 1:1 is supporting everyone except the child with the EHCP.

I got sick of it and made the school justify where they were spending my sons extra funding and made the point the EHCP is a legally binding document and what it says on it goes, if it says its paying for a full time 1:1, then thats what he should be getting... and any deviation from that i could, and would, throw the legal book at them via the LA... there were still a couple of times they pulled his specially trained TA to help others though.. and yes, i did do exactly as i promised every time they did it.. they eventually cottoned on that i wasn't going to put up with their bullshit and stopped removing her/treating her as bank staff.

Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:19

@DeepaBeesKit

I'm really sorry if you are having a hard time OP.

But in reality, it's unlikely that the entire cost of the 1-1 is being met by separately allocated ECHP funds from the local authority.

This is why nasty academy chains/high attaining schools in "naice" areas often go out of their way to be off putting to children with SEN. Schools in poorer areas with high levels of pupil premium less so, because where there's an overlap between SEN and PP the PP money can help with the budget.

I know how it works, as a parent and ex educator. But many LAs and schools are actually operating outside of SEN law and we are the ones following it, so I don't appreciate hearing how children with no additional needs are suffering because my son is sucking up their music lesson money, or whatever.

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DeepaBeesKit · 04/01/2022 10:19

Having taken my LA to tribunal, I am pretty well versed on SEN law and funding.

That's relevant in your case. Most schools (and parents) aren't so well versed and end up scraping the money out of their budget to top up funding from LA. Of course it shouldnt happen but it does.

Scissor · 04/01/2022 10:20

It is why some schools may suggest they are "not be able to meet the needs" of EHCP children, that £6k is not ring fenced.

Truly inclusive schools can take a battering in league tables, it takes a determined head and governors to stay strong in welcoming all.

Poppitt58 · 04/01/2022 10:21

I’m sorry you’re going through this, SEND funding is shocking, and it really isn’t good enough. However, the funding model you describe isn’t the norm in my LA. Usually the funding specified on the EHCP will go towards the 1:1 TAs wages, but rarely covers all. The 1:1 TAs at my school are employed by the school not the LA despite some of their wage coming from, and their contract being dependent on the EHCP.

DeepaBeesKit · 04/01/2022 10:21

It isnt music lesson money. It can be reading book money. It can be toilet paper money. It can be general TA money meaning a teacher struggles to offer small group support to children who aren't SEN, but are just a little lower in ability and need a bit of extra help on their maths etc.

Original poster

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:21

@DeepaBeesKit

It isnt music lesson money. It can be reading book money. It can be toilet paper money. It can be general TA money meaning a teacher struggles to offer small group support to children who aren't SEN, but are just a little lower in ability and need a bit of extra help on their maths etc.

Nobody is stealing that money from children. It's a completely separate pot.

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DeepaBeesKit · 04/01/2022 10:22

It doesnt make it right OP, everyone thinks it's wrong but its not other parents fault and you can't make other parents not want what's best for their own children just as you want what's best for yours.