To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

[quote Meadowbreeze]@hiredandsqueak unfortunately most LAs live under the belief that their policy is law. In fact policy can never trump law. They don't like to be reminded of this.[/quote]
@Meadowbreeze, yes a hundred times yes. I have it in writing after I quoted section 19 that our LA policy is this, your child is in this LA, this is what happens. Funnily enough LGO didn't agree with LA and I got £2k from LA for them failing to make timely provision

So school x with just 2 kids will find it easy to allow £6k per pupil for support.School Y with 15 kids will need to take way more money out of their budget.

This.

The first £6000 per year per child the schools have to find isn’t ringfenced.

unfortunately most LAs live under the belief that their policy is law.

Oh yes, the amount of times I have heard “this is how we do things here”.

And the worst of it all is the children who’s parents aren’t able to navigate the system to fight and fight for the basics their child is entitled to are the ones who really suffer.

This is so true! Parents who know the law and can advocate for their child get more support. DS1’s EHCP costs well over £100k, there is absolutely no way he would have that package if we had sat back and accepted what we were told. DS3’s EHCP costs significantly less, but still more than the average UK wage - I doubt he would even have an EHCP if we hadn’t pursued it.


Our LA quite happily fund barristers against unrepresented parents at Tribunal and still lose 99% of Tribunals because they issue EHCPs that are largely unlawful and don't meet needs.

The general public would be aghast at how much LAs spend defending indefensible cases.

The relatively recent case law isn’t quite as damaging as saying the EHCP can be vague and woolly and shouldn’t be detailed, specified and quantified. If anyone wants to read it it is London Borough of Redbridge v HO (SEN): [2020] UKUT 323 (AAC).

But in that situation the nursery should've still applied for the high needs funding.

Ftlog.read the post we did apply! It is not granted instantly and while waiting, rather than exclude a child, we had to fund 1to1 to meet needs.

What has made things worse is that general TAs who should be offering help in classrooms have all gone now (well they have in my school) so the parents are right their children should get help BUT like you say this does not trump the needs of a child who is allowed 1:1 support. BOTH need to be in place.

So many children now don't get EHCPs and there isn't funding for so many children who should have help but don't get it as they don't qualify. If you've got one it also doesn't entitle you to a 1:1 unless stated within.

My resource base does not break even with money from the LA, I've seen it on paper so they send children to me and we struggle to support. I've no idea what's going to happen when the covid hits the staff and we don't have spare TAs to cover 1:1 work- there is no wriggle room at all

@Imitatingdory I read that case law and j had the impression they tried to build the plan around the school which shouldn't be the case. I am all for specified plans, most people don't realise the funding doesn't get agreed in tribunal. However, there has to be some flexibility in terms of provision and some parents expect things to be conducted in a way that could only happen at home.

[quote Meadowbreeze]@DeepaBeesKit Unfortunately the early years funding is crazy and even quite woolly in law. But in that situation the nursery should've still applied for the high needs funding.[/quote]
But they did apply.
It just took months and instead of doing the ‘easy’ thing and rejecting said child while waiting general money was used instead.

The way things are set up as pp said there’s so much misdirection.

I don’t think people should be passive aggressive, or angry at people with SEN needs /make snide remarks but equally it’s not true that there’s no impact on other kids. The law and practice are two different things.

Ironically schools following the ‘law’ might not be the best either because that means just ignoring the kid until official funding etc is acesse.

@Howshouldibehave

So school x with just 2 kids will find it easy to allow £6k per pupil for support.School Y with 15 kids will need to take way more money out of their budget.

This.

The first £6000 per year per child the schools have to find isn’t ringfenced.

Yes it is. They get SEN funding that is seperate from their regular funding. This is made up of a set amount per SEN child and to be spent on SEN only. Whether that is equiptment, staff, resouces at the school's discretion.

@tractorandheadphones
Thank you for reading my post. My point is the system is not fit for purpose and inevitably the negative impacts of that reach beyond simply those with SEN.

@Mumofsend

My daughter is funded 28k via her EHCP. My son 22k. Damn right are their TAs their TAs. The rest of the class are not missing out because they have their own TAs, they just wouldn't be there at all if my children weren't. In fact the class benefit from my children's funding and also prevents my two impacting the learning of others. Resources are there for all because of my DD especially.

Any parent who dares to complain about my children dominating their TAs would get a very blunt response from me.

@Mumofsend wow what authority are you in? Those figures could only be dreamed of in my authority and to get the highest top up funding you require severe medical needs or you don't get it at all

@Meadowbreeze a lot of schools don't do the funding as they end up with £1000 extra a year, the hours this takes just isn't worth it 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Imitatingdory 39 Essex Chambers who our LA used to represent them at Tribunal no longer do so because their losses were damaging their reputation I have no sympathy for them though as their intention was to deny SEN children the provision they needed to access an education. Funnily enough when I stuck in an FOI LA's figures were such that Essex Chambers were working for less than £50 ph without travel or subsistence (we are a long way from Essex)

@deepabeeskit I'm sorry to hear that. How frustrating. I complete agree with you, however the enquiry really made me angry. The government can now wash its hands clean because people just weren't asking or applying. This thread itself just shows how little people know about funding. The Sen funding is per pupil on the register, not per school.
I don't know where this nursery is but here, high needs funding is based on date of application. If successful the money is given from date of application. I am sorry that this wasn't the case here. I am not familiar with the law around it but our LA is not very generous so I would he surprised if this wasn't the law. The EHCP funding is frustratingly not backdated.

Schools do NOT get £6000 per child with special needs, how I wish we did! The £6000 is a notional amount and is based on IDAC characteristics of the school, not the number of SEN children. So if a child with additional needs changes school, the receiving school does not get an additional £6000. However, if a child has a funded EHCP, then the additional funding agreed- over and above the first £6000, does transfer. But in my LA, it doesn't transfer until the next financial year. Not does the funded amount cover all of the additional funding needed, in my county it is based on an hourly rate of £9.16, anything over this ( including pension and other on costs) is paid for out of general school funds. Different counties may have different ways of doing things but, whatever the process involved, I'm sure we can all agree that funding for children with additional needs is beyond pathetic!

@Annabellerina

The stories on this post of parents trying to bully SEN kids out of mainstream schools is sad beyond belief.

Yep! Been there .. ended with me removing my children from mainstream education. The worst heartbreaking thing ever is seeing your child bullied by others because they don't quite fit the norm.. twice over as I have two children with autism.

@friedeggandsauce you need to take up IPSEA training and avail yourself knowledge of SEN law. As I posted above our LA issued dd's EHCP with band one funding (about £1.5k) at Tribunal costed provision of her EHCP was £46k. School would have taken the funding I wouldn't.

@friedeggandsauce BCP.

It took school being fairly blunt with me they absolutely couldn't meet the needs with the proposed funding, the LA playing silly buggers because the plans werent written well enough to justify the needed funding and me pursuing appeals to get the plans correctly written and to ensure the school got the correct funding. It was a massive joint effort between school and I.

I think LAs are far far too good at painting schools as the 'enemy' when qctually schools can't correctly challenge with dire plans and only the parent can get a plan correctly written for the school to correctly cost to get the funding. Instead schools are portrayed as the bad guys and parents end up battling the wrong people.

And now my daughter (she is year 2) is correctly funded after a hideous first year when her needs absolutely were not able to be met due to her plan she is now thriving, in mainstream. It does make a huge difference.

@friedeggandsauce I am really not implying the system is fit for purpose or funded well. However, this is exactly why after an 18 month enquiry, the government was found to be funding all this perfectly well!
£1000 is a lot of money. The application takes 15mins and you can reapply. Again, I am not saying this is perfect or will cover everything, but this is exactly the attitude that meant the government has now washed their hands of this problem.

There are loads of little pitfalls.

Hnbf is capped at 6k total where I live. It's also capped at 2 terms so good luck if your EHCP process/appeal etc takes longer.

The 6k ordinary provision isnt ways 6k guaranteed ringfenced in reality. It is only applicable per child on register, there are timing lags to accessing it and issues where children move school etc.

There are so many ways where the system falls down and school budgets plug the gap temporarily.

I really hope this thread shows any parent that's raising their eyebrows about the support another child is getting because the likelihood is:

1. The parents have gone to hell and back to get their child that TA or support.
2. Based on the situation across the country, it's unlikely that support is meeting their needs fully anyway.

@Meadowbreeze the application must be very different for your authority as there is no way for my authority it would be that quick, each form regardless of us asking for band A-G takes the same time 🤷🏼‍♀️

Actually my DD's school told me that they had to pay the first £6000 of interventions. It's not something parents are making up, schools claim this is the case

@friedeggandsauce tbh I would point parents to IPSEA and SOSSEN and advise them to make the request for an EHC needs assessment themselves. The only criteria is that the child has or may have SEN and needs or may need support through an EHCP anything else your LA are asking for is unnecessary. I'd also advise them to put in a SAR to the school so that they have the evidence to submit with the application. Job done!

The authority start every meeting saying that school pay £6000, school then say but that's just for books/staff/heating etc and we go round in circles