To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

@TractorAndHeadphones definitely. I ended up training with IPSEA and was briefly a parent advisor. Even the rich parents who can afford lawyers get really inaccurate advice from firms. Most often though, even when the school does help and it ends with an echp, it's not worth the paper it's written on, it's general and doesn't equate to any funding.

So after all that fighting, I am not surprised parents get very defensive when messages like that float around WhatsApp groups. I honestly feel like I have PTSD from that period. It was horrible.

@Saffy123456 that will be because it was nursery. Early years funding is different. If the child needs it moving forward into reception, they should be starting reception with an ehcp.

If I hadn’t fought to get DS a watertight EHCP (30 hours 1-1) then one of two outcomes would have happened -

• the education of the whole class would have been disrupted daily due to his unmet needs.

Or

• the LA would have had to fund a place at a suitable specialist setting. The only one that could come close to being suitable for him is an independent specialist. It would have cost an awful lot more than his 1-1 does.

As it is he has had full 1-1 since year 2, funded from his ehcp since year 3. He is now in year 7 at a mainstream secondary and because he is supported he is thriving and he isn’t negatively impacting the education of others at all.

Getting the right support in for the individual child with additional needs at an early age will often actually cost a lot less and be a lot less disruptive to others over time.

I've yet to meet a Senco that understood the legal aspect of EHCPs needing to be specified and quantified. Even Ds's LA case officer told me a few months ago that EHCPS are never specific as the school can then interpret them as they see fit!

Ds is currently not in school. His woolly EHCP meant that support and provisions weren't put in place. And a young man who could have done well in mainstream (if he had been supported adequately). Now needs an expensive specialist provision. It's costing way more than it ever should have.

@Sirzy

If I hadn’t fought to get DS a watertight EHCP (30 hours 1-1) then one of two outcomes would have happened -

- the education of the whole class would have been disrupted daily due to his unmet needs

The ridiculous thing is because EHCPs are a bloody nightmare for all but the best equipped and advised, this is exactly what happens in many cases, often for months at a time. and it's why you get disgruntled other parents. Of course those parents should never be blaming other parents, least of all those of the childs with additional needs, but are you surprised parents of other kids in this situation are disgruntled?

[quote DeepaBeesKit]**@Sirzy

If I hadn’t fought to get DS a watertight EHCP (30 hours 1-1) then one of two outcomes would have happened -

- the education of the whole class would have been disrupted daily due to his unmet needs

The ridiculous thing is because EHCPs are a bloody nightmare for all but the best equipped and advised, this is exactly what happens in many cases, often for months at a time. and it's why you get disgruntled other parents. Of course those parents should never be blaming other parents, least of all those of the childs with additional needs, but are you surprised parents of other kids in this situation are disgruntled?[/quote]
Genuinely, @Sirzy, @DeepaBeesKit is a lost cause in this thread and it's better to ignore them. Maybe they'll learn something, but they seem very keen not to.

Unfortunately there is now recent case law that has called the whole need for very specified and quantified provision in to question and has stated that flexibility should be considered especially as the EHCP is a living document.

The other issue with funding is that SEN funding isn't ring fenced so the school doesn't have to use the £6k per child on the SEN register for SEN support although they obviously have to meet their statutory obligations towards meeting needs and inclusion, the money can be spent on anything. Which is why it can be such a battle for parents to get the appropriate support even before you start requesting EHC needs assessment.

@Punxsutawney same. Don't get me started on headteachers and sencos. Often the case managers at the LAs don't have a clue either. We had all sorts of arguments until I quoted them exactly where in the act this law exists. Then the argument was that the school should have flexibility on how they provide the support.
But when the school wanted to provide support you said you needed professional diagnosis. Now the professional is being very specific in what support should be given and you're saying it's up to the school? So which is it.

I hope someone called them out on the Whatsapp group?

Genuinely, @Sirzy, @DeepaBeesKit is a lost cause in this thread and it's better to ignore them. Maybe they'll learn something, but they seem very keen not to.

Because I've agreed that what Sirzy says can happen when an EHCP isn't watertight is in fact exactly what happens? Or are you implying all the EHCPs out there are watertight? I think most SEN parents will agree with you it's a fight to get one at all let alone get it perfect.

@chimpandzee This is true re the case law. However, statutory law still overrides case law. LAs will use this case law, of course but in my experience when a parent is being reasonable and not expecting the best possible provision (the law states the child's needs have to be met, not be the best) which is often very expensive, they win.
There are all sorts of people. Sometimes LA's are reasonable and some schools are excellent. There are many parents however where nothing can be done right and the law rightly has to protect public money.
That being said, overwhelming majority of appeals win in favour of parents/child when it comes to plans being specified.

Unfortunately there is now recent case law that has called the whole need for very specified and quantified provision in to question and has stated that flexibility should be considered especially as the EHCP is a living document.

That’s worrying and goes against the SEN code of practise.

Surely that’s why you have annual reviews/emergency reviews because it’s a live document so may need to change.

Just to add, how specific a plan is also often depends on how specific the reports are. LA reports are notorious for not specifying how many hours a child is to receive or what level of qualification a professional helping them should have.
Private plans are very often specified which is why LAs will say they don't accept them (not their choice). The report then feeds the EHCP. If the report saying the child needs 1hr of 1:1 literacy teaching by a Level 5 qualified SpLD professional, that's what will be in the plan and that what the school can use to argue larger funding. If the plan says the child needs dyslexia friendly teaching, the LA will say great the teacher can do that, were not giving you anymore money.

Sorry, private reports.

I think you are all completely determined to misinterpret me.

Surely you agree there is not enough funding to support those struggling in schools. The pot of money is finite, whether from LA or from school budget.

Where an amount of money is finite, choice as to how its allocated always affects other budget areas. The money is moving around different pockets. The government never says "hmm, SEN needs in mainstream schools are rising, we need to ensure there's enough money for that", they just squeeze schools in other areas.

Best thing anyone can do is stop voting Tory, for one.

It is so sad. And it's happening because there is not enough money spent to provide decent support.

It's not just lack of funding, it's lack of understanding in general.

I overheard a parent in the yard saying that DS "shouldn't even be in this school". I've had a teacher tell me that DS is "autistic when it suits him". During staggered starts/finishes because of covid I had an agreement with school that DS could go in and come out at his usual time via the office as he found the change upsetting. Several gobby parents complained (one of them the parent who said he shouldn't be in that school) that it was unfair so school withdrew the arrangement with just one day's notice and no preparation for DS that it would be changing, they claimed it was only ever a temporary measure until he adjusted to the new routine (despite their original email saying he could do so for the duration of staggered times). I've had staff stand in the staff room windows staring and smirking as DS had meltdowns in the yard, not a one of them - not even the SENCO - offering any support and then during CAMHS assessments report that I am ineffective at managing his behaviour and that he must have problems at home if he is so reluctant to leave school (nothing at all to do with a stressful school day, transition from school to home, and after school restraint collapse, oh no).

You'll never win OP, there will always be someone to battle - the LA, the school, the Tribunal, other parents. It's shit, on top of having to parent a child with additional needs.

All you can do (all any parent with a child with additional needs can do) is chip away at the problem. Try not to listen to the other parents at your child's school.

Just to be clear, I am totally of the opinion that a TA employed as 1-1 for a child with an EHCP should not be used as a general class TA, but I'm also saying that not every TA working 1-1 is working with a child that has an EHCP stating that they need full-time 1-1 support (in my school). Also, in my school, there will always be a general TA in the class, as well as the 1-1.

I came on to say exactly this. I'm a TA and my day is constant interventions, tests, helping with behaviours. As a school we also pay for 1:1 out of our budget whilst waiting for decisions to be made. Did you try to explain your circumstances @theqentity?

My daughter is funded 28k via her EHCP. My son 22k. Damn right are their TAs their TAs. The rest of the class are not missing out because they have their own TAs, they just wouldn't be there at all if my children weren't. In fact the class benefit from my children's funding and also prevents my two impacting the learning of others. Resources are there for all because of my DD especially.

Any parent who dares to complain about my children dominating their TAs would get a very blunt response from me.

I also worked damn hard to get my children's EHCPs watertight

@DeepaBeesKit if there is a large amount of Sen children that wouldn't get an ehcp, the school needs to apply for money from the high needs fund block from their LA. If the schools Sen budget has ran dry because there is a child who has very specific needs, there needs to be an ehc needs assessment done.
If the ehcp is underfunded, it needs to be appealed, specified and funded properly.
The money is finite, but not at the schools end.

The funding situation is ridiculous and inadequate.
The LA allocate a per child amount. This is supposed to cover teachers, staff, equipment etc etc And an amount for supporting children with SEN.
It doesn't matter how many kids at the school have SEN.
So school x with just 2 kids will find it easy to allow £6k per pupil for support.
School Y with 15 kids will need to take way more money out of their budget.
Even when EHCPs are awarded (and there's no back funding for any additional support provided up til then) you can see why school Y will still be struggling.
When the funding system moves to a set amount for all pupils and then extra for each relevant child with SEN it will be a lit fairer and much less stressful for Heads trying to balance an impossible financial situation.

@DeepaBeesKit to add, there was a big investigation done just before the pandemic as so many LAs and schools were struggling. It was found in favour of the government because so many parents and schools don't request the additional high needs funding. If the LAs high needs funding is running dry, they also need to escalate this. I am not disagreeing with you, but it is not helpful to anyone when they don't ask for what they should get.

Not sure if that was clear.
2 schools with eg 200 pupils will get the same amount of funding as it's done per pupil.
But school x will need to fund £12k of support and school y would need to fund £90k.
That's why it's a shit unfair system.

@PicaK this isn't true where I live. It depends massively on the amount on the Sen register at the time of the October school census.