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Original poster

To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

531 replies

theqentity · 04/01/2022 10:01

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

OP posts:
DietrichandDiMaggio · 04/01/2022 10:36

Just to be clear, I am totally of the opinion that a TA employed as 1-1 for a child with an EHCP should not be used as a general class TA, but I'm also saying that not every TA working 1-1 is working with a child that has an EHCP stating that they need full-time 1-1 support (in my school). Also, in my school, there will always be a general TA in the class, as well as the 1-1.

greyinganddecaying · 04/01/2022 10:37

I hear you OP.

If those parents knew how hard it had been to get EHCP funding, or how our children struggle with a whole range of things that their kids find straightforward, then maybe they'd STFU.

hiredandsqueak · 04/01/2022 10:37

Many schools never mind parents don't have a clue about this. Schools are schooled by LA's on LA policy which very likely pays no regard to SEN law. At dd's last mainstream secondary the SENCo was clueless, thought the EHCP was guidance that they could pick and choose which bits to implement and had no idea that the LA were legally responsible for maintaining its contents. I felt for all the children there with EHCPs who didn't have parents who knew the law as they weren't getting the provision they should have had (SENCo blamed it on my insistence that dd got full provision depriving others but wouldn't pass my details on so that I could support other parents)

MobyDicksTinyCanoe · 04/01/2022 10:41

Ive got friends who have had to pay out tens of thousands in legal fees to get their SEN child an appropriate education...... Hell my son only got a decent package because he ended up being badly hurt during a restraint by untrained staff in a school he should never have been placed in (( profoundly Autistic ds lumped in a class of 18 kids with varying learning difficulties and absolute chaos))

The fact that he's thriving now after being let down for so many years is bittersweet Hmm

LethargicActress · 04/01/2022 10:42

@SkeletonSkins

I don’t think it’s always as simple as that though. I was a Senco until fairly recently and many of our TAs were funded by school. We had several children who the LA didn’t fund, who we were going through the EHCP process for, who we felt needed additional support and so we paid in the meantime, sometimes for years at a time. And when we did get funding, it was normally between 6-8k, which doesn’t pay for a full time TA salary, so of course we topped it up.
This is my experience in school as well.

There is often a significant amount of time in between it being recognised that a child needs extra support and and any extra funding coming through. In all that time, the extra support is funded entirely by the school, and if that means a class TA has to be used to support a child with SEN for a large amount of time, then it obviously follows that that TA will not be available to support the whole class as intended. That’s not the fault of the family that needs the extra support, but it does make it understandable that other parents can be disgruntled sometimes.

The HT in my school confirmed that it was acceptable, in certain circumstances, for a TA who is allocated as a 1-1 to work with other children sometimes, because the school budget was paying for the TA alongside the LA. I have no idea about the legalities of this, but there are lots of legal requirements in schools, not just for dc with SN, and if the government expects schools to meet all of them, then they need to ensure that it’s physically possible by providing enough funding.

StationaryMagpie · 04/01/2022 10:44

@hiredandsqueak

Many schools never mind parents don't have a clue about this. Schools are schooled by LA's on LA policy which very likely pays no regard to SEN law. At dd's last mainstream secondary the SENCo was clueless, thought the EHCP was guidance that they could pick and choose which bits to implement and had no idea that the LA were legally responsible for maintaining its contents. I felt for all the children there with EHCPs who didn't have parents who knew the law as they weren't getting the provision they should have had (SENCo blamed it on my insistence that dd got full provision depriving others but wouldn't pass my details on so that I could support other parents)
There absolutely ought to be more parent/peer support for parents with SEN kids in schools.

I made a point of teaching other SEN parents about their rights, the law, equality act, local offer....etc at my kids primary school because i got sick of the HT taking the piss out of them.

I think the guy breathed a sigh of relief when my youngest finally went to secondary school. (now doing it there too)

User2638483 · 04/01/2022 10:44

School WhatsApp groups can be the work of the devil

drspouse · 04/01/2022 10:46

you can imagine how pass agg my experience is. (I'm not even invited to the WhatsApp group!)

Me neither, it was used to egg other parents on to tell the school to PEx my son.
School told the parents off but guess what, he was PEx.

I also have a low-achieving but not struggling TOO badly child, and we support her at home so she can be more relaxed at school. That's what we do. I don't complain that other children in her class have 1:1.

x2boys · 04/01/2022 10:47

@DeepaBeesKit

Yes so the point is it is the fault of the LAs not funding it properly, but where they don't, why should other people's kids be shortchanged instead of yours? It does happen and yes, parents will grumble where that happens.
My child is at a special school so thankfully I don't have to put up with this kind of crap Do you not understand equality ? The child with SEN gets extra support so they can access education,other children who don't require support don't get it because they don't need it ,other children are not being short changed .
germsandcoffee · 04/01/2022 10:52

I once had a parent complaining my son was getting a better education because he had in their opinion his own personal teacher!
No mate he had a one to one assistant who wasn't a trained teacher at all!
The headteacher absolutely called her out in front of the whole playground of parents as she tried to get a gang together to get my son removed from the school as he was using all the funding just for him!
It's hard enough for us parents without other parents interfering in shit they know nothing about 🤷‍♀️

Floundery · 04/01/2022 10:54

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

DeepaBeesKit · 04/01/2022 11:06

The child with SEN gets extra support so they can access education,other children who don't require support don't get it because they don't need it ,other children are not being short changed.

It's not binary! Its not black and white that I child either "needs support" or "doesnt".

It's a sliding scale where children need differing amounts of support, and at the moment, education funding is such that only those who need the highest levels of support get any.

hiredandsqueak · 04/01/2022 11:10

@floundery parents in ds's primary got up a petition to have my son removed from the school. HT and I had had our moments (usually over not implementing support properly) but she invited the ringleaders to bring in the petition, gave them all pen and paper told them that ds was staying but they could withdraw their own children from the school effective from that day if they chose and to pass that message to each and every parent who had signed the petition (she kept it for reference) I had new found respect for her that day.

Original poster
theqentity · 04/01/2022 11:11

@DeepaBeesKit

The child with SEN gets extra support so they can access education,other children who don't require support don't get it because they don't need it ,other children are not being short changed.

It's not binary! Its not black and white that I child either "needs support" or "doesnt".

It's a sliding scale where children need differing amounts of support, and at the moment, education funding is such that only those who need the highest levels of support get any.

Nobody is saying children without additional needs don't deserve support. I don't know where on earth you plucked that from.
OP posts:
Annabellerina · 04/01/2022 11:13

The stories on this post of parents trying to bully SEN kids out of mainstream schools is sad beyond belief.

TractorAndHeadphones · 04/01/2022 11:16

You’re on

hiredandsqueak · 04/01/2022 11:20

@DeepaBeesKit
It's a sliding scale where children need differing amounts of support, and at the moment, education funding is such that only those who need the highest levels of support get any

But those who do get support have probably had parents who have fought very hard through SENDIST to get that support and that support for those children isn't depriving others it is the lack of funding.
Our LA pay close to six figures to educate dd in an out of County independent specialist school. If they didn't and funded her in an in County maintained school none of the funding attached to her EHCP would be used to support other children it would all go to support dd. School wouldn't be funding it LA would.

DeepaBeesKit · 04/01/2022 11:21

Nobody is saying children without additional needs don't deserve support. I don't know where on earth you plucked that from.

I quoted x2boys.

The stories on this post of parents trying to bully SEN kids out of mainstream schools is sad beyond belief.

It is so sad. And it's happening because there is not enough money spent to provide decent support.

Eyesofdisarray · 04/01/2022 11:23

Parents at my DDs school were quite annoyed that she went there at all and her place should have been given to a child without SEN!!! Let alone her"special help"
Just ignorance and bloody maddening

Meadowbreeze · 04/01/2022 11:25

Its interesting because lots of people working in schools don't actually understand this. People in the LA don't understand it. In fact, most lawyers don't either. IPSEA provides training for barristers and lawyers as it's an area their normal training basically doesn't touch.

The £6k argument is irrelevant. When a child has a TA they have funding for that TA. If the school is funding it out of the £6k and topping it up themselves that's not really anything to do with parents. If the child has an EHCP that says they need a full time TA and the council gives the school £8k to find this, that's for the school to take up. That's the schools fault for not making sure they get the correct funding.
My DDs EHCP is textbook material. I fought for years to make sure it's like a shopping list. Took my LA to appeal at every review. Its very detailed and very specific. The LA still tried to pull their crap. I fought for months demanding for the correct funding to be given, however this is the schools responsibility, not mine so it caused issues as they refused to talk to me about it.

The state of the situation is really dire. Most professionals are clueless about the process, let alone the parents.
We once had a child stuck into my DDs 1:1 SALT sessions. I was not told for weeks until my DD cried and explained why she hates it. When I brought this up with the school they, and the parents, tried to guilt trip me into letting the girl join. You couldn't make this crap up.
I am sorry the system is screwed. But don't guilt trip me for it.

TractorAndHeadphones · 04/01/2022 11:26

@DeepaBeesKit while what you say is true. It’s never the people who might actually lose out complaining. Like lower income families or kids of lower ability but undiagnosed.

It’s the naice parents who frankly want SEN kids to just go away.

If they had their way my DP would be

TractorAndHeadphones · 04/01/2022 11:27

*not be the man he is today with a degree, job and a relationship. God only knows what he’s have ended up as.

TractorAndHeadphones · 04/01/2022 11:29

@Meadowbreeze

Its interesting because lots of people working in schools don't actually understand this. People in the LA don't understand it. In fact, most lawyers don't either. IPSEA provides training for barristers and lawyers as it's an area their normal training basically doesn't touch.

The £6k argument is irrelevant. When a child has a TA they have funding for that TA. If the school is funding it out of the £6k and topping it up themselves that's not really anything to do with parents. If the child has an EHCP that says they need a full time TA and the council gives the school £8k to find this, that's for the school to take up. That's the schools fault for not making sure they get the correct funding.
My DDs EHCP is textbook material. I fought for years to make sure it's like a shopping list. Took my LA to appeal at every review. Its very detailed and very specific. The LA still tried to pull their crap. I fought for months demanding for the correct funding to be given, however this is the schools responsibility, not mine so it caused issues as they refused to talk to me about it.

The state of the situation is really dire. Most professionals are clueless about the process, let alone the parents.
We once had a child stuck into my DDs 1:1 SALT sessions. I was not told for weeks until my DD cried and explained why she hates it. When I brought this up with the school they, and the parents, tried to guilt trip me into letting the girl join. You couldn't make this crap up.
I am sorry the system is screwed. But don't guilt trip me for it.

The worst part is that it takes a very determined parent tto get all of this.

Kids with uninvolved / lower ability parents are screwed. Or parents who ‘don’t believe’ in SEN

DeepaBeesKit · 04/01/2022 11:33

@DeepaBeesKit while what you say is true. It’s never the people who might actually lose out complaining. Like lower income families or kids of lower ability but undiagnosed.

@tractorAndHeadphones I think that's true, sadly.

Saffy123456 · 04/01/2022 11:33

My son received 1-1 funding in a private day nursery paid by the LEA without an ECHP, would that have happened without the Paediatrician sending them a legal notice probably not. Thankfully I wasn't on a class WhatsApp group.