To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

I really really wish Head Teachers, SEN governors and Sencos would seek training in the funding aspects of SEN. Instead they’re fed nonsense by the LA and then when faced with a fluted up parent, automatically box them off as The Enemy.

Conversely I really wish parents would understand the lack of time sencos get (especially at primary), the amount of work they have to do, that sometimes the senco does know how to get the best from the system.

In fairness they do seek training but this is usually from the LA so obviously they are being advised wrongly. It's clearly ridiculous. But when you are taught a system , you wouldn't automatically think it was wrong and seek training elsewhere.

@Hercisback in all honesty though that is not a parent nor child's problem to be concerned about. If it is an issue school need to sort it.

And a properly written and funded ehcp plan should specify things like senco and planning time etc. Which is something else a lot of schools/parent don't realise

@Hercisback

Conversely I really wish parents would understand the lack of time sencos get (especially at primary), the amount of work they have to do, that sometimes the senco does know how to get the best from the system.

But that’s not the parents fault.

Parents need those who are supposed to be there to support their child to actually do so.

Not to peddle the lies from the LA!

No. It isn't a parents fault, but nor is it the senco (or even the schools) fault. There needs to be understanding all round.

Primary sencos often get 2-3 hours a week as well as a classroom timetable, to do their role. That's not enough. Lots of the work they do isn't directly related to EHCPS either, it's all the other stuff on top.

Schools often can't sort it. They don't have the staff budget.

@Hercisback schools need to ensure their sencos have enough time. Parents shouldn't have to accept their children not having what they need because a school won't prioritise a senco being able to do their job properly.

My DC's school the senco is a full time role with no classroom teaching, the deputy is the inclusion lead and supports the senco too. There is 2 part time lower level roles that support the senco too.

@Hercisback yes it absolutely is the responsibility of the SENCO and their absolute fault if they don’t understand the system in which they’re working!

The consequences of such an attitude as yours is that the lost vulnerable members of society are short changed and left without advocates from the very people who are employed to help them, and are also being paid for via the public purse! Learn the job, follow the law!

Some of you have no idea how under funded some schools are.
With a 2k TLR per year, nothing would make me want to be a SENCO.
Small schools can't afford non teaching SENCOs.

Whilst you are all right in an ideal world, have some understanding of the reality. It's another disconnect between the law and the reality of SENCO life.

@Westmeathtip

I really really wish Head Teachers, SEN governors and Sencos would seek training in the funding aspects of SEN. Instead they’re fed nonsense by the LA and then when faced with a fluted up parent, automatically box them off as The Enemy.

For every child with a parent pushing a school to prioritise that child's, there are 20 more parents who don't push but whose children need equal or more support (in my experience). That's one of the things that make things difficult. So another meeting with parent A takes time from applying for an assessment for child A, whose needs are higher.

But you're still 100% right, as a parent, to prioritise and fight for your own child. Just explaining the slightly hostile response you may receive. It's not ok, but I do argue that it is understandable.

It is sad that the system is set up to further entrench the connection between parental education level and children's education, especially for children with SEND. Parents without the cognitive or language skills to understand the law, or the confidence to assert themselves with those in authority, have to rely on the school to push for their child to receive the necessary support.

The school has to maintain a decent relationship with the LA, or they become unable to fight for these children, when their parents are unable. Most SENCOs I have worked with do understand that LAs are acting illegally, but are powerless to make a serious difference (I accept that this may not be universally true). We can't even get the LA to attend annual review meetings at the moment.

"For every child with a parent pushing a school to prioritise that child's, there are 20 more parents who don't push but whose children need equal or more support (in my experience). That's one of the things that make things difficult. So another meeting with parent A takes time from applying for an assessment for child A, whose needs are higher."

If children were getting what they need, the parent wouldn't have to push.

With a 2k TLR per year, nothing would make me want to be a SENCO

Exactly.

I am a teaching senco with insufficient release time. I have no additional money for doing the job-no TLR and no SEN allowance. I don’t even have an office-there is simply no money. Nobody wanted to do the role.

@Imitatingdory

I understand the point Pugroll is making, I am not saying that the system shouldn’t be so difficult to navigate and adversarial. It is a sad indictment of society that DC whose parents can advocate from them receive better support. However, 1:1 provision in EHCPs, as per the OP, that has invariable involved a laborious process, cannot be compared to classroom TA provision and should not be used to provide support for others.

What I was trying to say is that the crux of it all is underfunding. If each class had a classroom TA there wouldn't be the horrible and nasty resentment and 'jealousy', if the process wasn't as hard to navigate and get a satisfactory outcome more children would get the 1:1 support they deserve.it needn't be this hard, the reason it is comes down to money.

The parents of DC who need an EHCP, but don’t have one, should be encouraged and supported to appeal, the majority are upheld

Not all parents have the knowledge and skills to do this though sadly, and it creates an even wider gap between children. Again, it all comes down to money, it's very good for the government if at least some parents cannot follow this process and they don't have to provide additional support, it's bloody sad.

@Lougle

"For every child with a parent pushing a school to prioritise that child's, there are 20 more parents who don't push but whose children need equal or more support (in my experience). That's one of the things that make things difficult. So another meeting with parent A takes time from applying for an assessment for child A, whose needs are higher."

If children were getting what they need, the parent wouldn't have to push.

Of course. But it takes time and money to get these needs supported. Things no school has enough of, no matter how much it prioritises SEN. It also, usually, takes an argument with the LA. Which is harder to do as a school than as a parent. It is often really helpful when schools do work with a parent to push back against the LA.

Agree it's not the parents issue the senco doesn't have time but it doesn't change the facts. If there is no money in the school budget to release the Senco more what can be done?
In my current school both the deputy and senco have full class responsibilities with only half a day a week each to complete other responsibilities. That is really not unusual in one form entry primaries and smaller. It's not good enough but at school level there is not much more that can be done. School funding is the issue. Most senco's are trying their best with the resources provided for them. It's the system that needs looking at, I just think it's important to make that clear to some posters so they use their arguments in the most effective way.

The school has to maintain a decent relationship with the LA, or they become unable to fight for these children, when their parents are unable. Most SENCOs I have worked with do understand that LAs are acting illegally, but are powerless to make a serious difference (I accept that this may not be universally true). We can't even get the LA to attend annual review meetings at the moment.

I understand this, but I wish more schools would routinely refer parents to organisations like SOS SEN and IPSEA if they feel they need help with applying for an EHCP, appealing, or enforcing what is in the EHCP. Also that they would be prepared at least to supply witness statements to support parents who are appealing where they feel the appeal is justified: this doesn't have to be antagonistic to the local authority, they can simply be statements of fact about the child's lack of progress despite having received all appropriate support and their view that the child needs more support.

If there is no money in the school budget to release the Senco more what can be done?

If SENCOs don't have enough time to help parents push LAs to provide funding for more help, that's exactly when they should refer parents to organisations that could give the required help instead.

That is precisely it. I do get that being a senco is a high demand job but why on earth don't such schools just say to parents that they are swamped but you can get xx from yy or apply for an EHCNA themselves.

@Mumofsend Because if you're at the stage where you're telling parents that the need is so high, you're admitting that this needs to be done and it becomes your responsibility. If a parent says they want to do it themselves off their own back, that's different.

It doesn't mean that at all @Meadowbreeze. 90% of parents would welcome being informed just how easy it is to apply as a parent by their school instead of waiting for the senco to be free.

My younger dc's school has a senco who is non teaching but is also the safeguarding lead and the deputy head so I think she only does senco stuff 2 days a week. Then there is the deputy senco who also teaches a class as well. So quite a lot of senco for a small primary (230 children) but I think there is a higher than average children with send and pupil premium as well. Each class has at least 1 full time TA, reception has 2 and year 3 also has a retired TA who volunteers part time as well as the paid TA. There are also always some TA's in the nurture room as well. My 8 year old finds the nurture room a bit confusing because there is a "cooling off" area there with sensory lights etc but when he checked, the temperature wasn't any colder than the rest of the school .

My younger dc's senco told me that most parents who apply for an ehcp themselves without school support don't get one. School applied for my 8 year old in year 3 after telling us since reception that he wasn't behind enough to get one and the ed psych said he should have had one years ago. Mind you I find that a lot of professionals are very good at telling parents how other professionals should be spending their budgets. I remember the physio an OT arguing about who was going to use their budget to get ds a supportive chair while I wondered if it would be easier to buy a 2nd hand chair myself and sell it on afterwards.

While I'm here has anyone got any tips for a secondary school SEN review? Dc2 (year 9) has his on Wednesday and I just know it's going to be the same as the last 2 where I come in having done loads of research and it's just a tick box exercise with a bit of head tilting thrown in. Sometimes I feel that the school send department were only interested in him when he had a meltdown in the middle of maths (year 7) or tried to kill himself (year 8). I know I'm lucky that he doesn't do that kind of thing every day. I wish I knew how to help him. He doesn't want anything that makes him look different, keeps insisting he is fine etc. I can't even hug him like I do with my other dc because he screams like he is being murdered if anyone even accidently touches him. His official diagnosis is ehlers danlos syndrome type 3 (hypermobility type) with sensory issues and autistic traits.

I would say in secondary AR focus on targets and actions to meet them, what are school doing and what impact is it having. Push for additional targets or actions if you feel that is what’s needed. It is incredibly difficult when kids don’t want any support though, how do you get a teen to engage when they’re in denial about needing support? We have a great ELSA who can often support teens accepting the need for an intervention.

it creates an even wider gap between children.

I have acknowledged more than once it is an horrendous system where DC whose parents can navigate the system and advocate get better support. I have also posted should not be that way.

Not all parents have the knowledge and skills to do this though sadly

However, while ^ this is the case I did put “encouraged and supported^,” and there are many avenues of support available that sadly lots do not know about - from legal aid (which many parents and even professionals do not realise is available) to IPSEA and SOSSEN to Parents In Need, local groups, MN, numerous Facebook groups, and everything in between. If parents were signposted and supported to approach some of the the gap between provision may narrow. I very much doubt it will disappear as there is a gap in provision/attainment/support in society outwith SEND and EHCPs, but it could narrow, at least at an individual level.

While underfunding of education is a huge problem LAs still manage to spend extortionate sums hiring barristers to defend indefensible case against unrepresented parents, so it is not like there is no money in their pot (I’m aware this is not anything to do with schools). And as Punx posted, her LA is now having to spend more than if they had provided basic support in the first place. Her case is not unusual.

I find secondary are awful for not giving me the reports 2 weeks before - so last one I emailed on the day saying I need my lawful time to read and digest the information so please send all paperwork and let's reschedule for 10 days time 😉.
It's targets I want, and knowing how they will meet what the LA has funded.
I also contact the medical folk personally and check they know the date, and ask if they can come ..if not pls send latest reports.
I shouldn't need to do it, but I act as the coordinator to ensure things get done. I've learned over the years it saves my frustration, and makes sure my DC gets what they need!