To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

@Meadowbreeze I agree with this. School and I had to work together to get the plans properly funded. Wasn't the most pleasant thing I've ever done but my DD's funding was doubled

And a lot of the time local authorities will say that children won’t qualify for an ehcp to put parents off applying. They also feed their lies to schools which they believe too.

The bar for an EHCP needs assessment is set pretty low (MAY have special educational needs and MAY need extra support via and ehcp) yet people are constantly put off applying.

Johnny Autism

Please don't use this term. Both my sons have autism and I find it offensive.

@DeepaBeesKit if there is a large amount of Sen children that wouldn't get an ehcp, the school needs to apply for money from the high needs fund block from their LA. If the schools Sen budget has ran dry because there is a child who has very specific needs, there needs to be an ehc needs assessment done.if the ehcp is underfunded, it needs to be appealed, specified and funded properly.
The money is finite, but not at the schools end.

Of course. All the things you state are easily done and don't take any time at all to put in place, right?

Its often the time these things take that are when schools end up funding things temporarily from other pots. It can take years to get an EHCP properly sorted with specific funding allocated.

@Sirzy This and again this. We had a meeting with the head and senco who, in a very patronising tone, told us they work in education and couldn't get their kids ehcps and that my DD is definitely not going to get one as she's normal.
I was basically gaslight by them.
I ended up getting it and they decided to suggest she goes to a special school, even though 6 weeks prior there was nothing wrong with her

@DeepaBeesKit Tue 04-Jan-22 10:27:06

Yes so the point is it is the fault of the LAs not funding it properly, but where they don't, why should other people's kids be shortchanged instead of yours? It does happen and yes, parents will grumble where that happens.

@DeepaBeesKit Tue 04-Jan-22 12:02:42

"Sirzy

If I hadn’t fought to get DS a watertight EHCP (30 hours 1-1) then one of two outcomes would have happened -

• the education of the whole class would have been disrupted daily due to his unmet needs"

The ridiculous thing is because EHCPs are a bloody nightmare for all but the best equipped and advised, this is exactly what happens in many cases, often for months at a time. and it's why you get disgruntled other parents. Of course those parents should never be blaming other parents, least of all those of the childs with additional needs, but are you surprised parents of other kids in this situation are disgruntled?

So you are saying parents are annoyed because SEN children get funding meaning their children are "short changed" but are also annoyed that SEN children disrupt lessons because they don't have the enough funding therefore it is not surprising they are "disgruntled".

Well actually it is extremely shocking to me that parents of children without SEN are annoyed that my child requires assistance to have an education. That see my daughter having constant adult supervision so she doesn't self harm as an educational advantage over NT children. It is utterly disgusting that adults think this way.

Oh and don't for one second forget that the children of parents who think this way are aware of their parents' opinions on this. Therefore are raising children just as ignorant as them.

@DeepaBeesKit You really don't need to speak to me like that. I am very aware of the situation. I've worked in schools finance for years and helped at IPSEA. You are barking up the wrong tree. I never said these things are quick or easy. My daughter's plan took years to get right but that's because I had such bad advice.
If a plan is applied for, and at the draft stage specified or taken straight to tribunal, it should not take years.
It doesn't take long to apply for extra high needs funding. I've done it loads of times.
It is a case of people not knowing this is something they should do. And by people I mean parents as well as professionals working both in schools and in LAs.

You're right OP.

Unless you are in my class, with 2 children who should really have 1-1 but haven't made it through the process yet, but need to have someone with them so the rest of the class can learn. Therefore the class TA goes with them, leaving the rest of the class without one.

@Meadowbreeze I agree with you regarding funding. The SENCo of the mainstream secondary would have accepted dd's EHCP (on transfer from SSEN) with band one funding which wouldn't have covered much of the provision in the EHCP because she felt any funding was a bonus when she would pick and choose which bits of the EHCP were met. At SENDIST costed provision was £46k. Had I been oblivious as many parents are then the school would have had no hope (and no intention) of meeting the EHCP.
Schools need educating on the law and stop relying on training by the LA on LA policy which perpetuates the myths to parents. Our LA quite happily fund barristers against unrepresented parents at Tribunal and still lose 99% of Tribunals because they issue EHCPs that are largely unlawful and don't meet needs. Schools do parents and children no favours when they agree to unspecified and unquantified EHCPs with inadequate funding.

@RothRoth

Johnny Autism

Please don't use this term. Both my sons have autism and I find it offensive.

I'm autistic and so is my child. I was using it to point out the attitudes of others, but still I understand that you were offended by it and I apologise for using that word. Understood and won't happen again.

So you are saying parents are annoyed because SEN children get funding meaning their children are "short changed" but are also annoyed that SEN children disrupt lessons because they don't have the enough funding therefore it is not surprising they are "disgruntled".*

No, they are annoyed about their own child. You don't give a fuck about my child, do you? But I should care deeply about yours?

The point is you cannot expect any parent not to want what is best for their own child. Human beings are selfish. I'm not saying that's nice, or good, or helpful. It's not! Its true.

You aren't going to put aside your childs needs for the good of anyone else, and other parents feel exactly the same about their own DC.

Don't we all want the best for our children?We can have a tunnel vision when it comes to our kids and rightly so but some of this parents are picking on the easy targets(sen kids and their families)absolutely wrong.

Schools are not getting enough funding from the LA because of budget cuts that have been happening since 2010 and the bureaucracy.

The blame should be the government not anyone or school.

SEN funding is a nightmare. LA's use the goden £6000 as an excuse as to why they dont need to provide an assessment for children.

Just thank your lucky stars you don't live in Nottinghamshire. Their EHCP's do not give a funding amount for 1:1 support. Instead they believe that thier 'family SEN funding model' works, except it doesnt, each family of schools has less and less, the number of children who require funding is rising expotentially, mainly due to a lack of specialist provision, but there is no more money in the pots. Therefore schools are having to provide all support from thier own budgets. It isnt fair on anyone at all.

The blame should be the government not anyone or school.

Which I have said repeatedly. No one should be taking it out on SEN parents I'm simply empathising with ALL parents impacted by the funding shortfalls.

@hiredandsqueak Sorry to hear that. I'm glad you didn't listen though. That same senco will go online and complain about woeful funding and how the kids in her care can't be provided with what they need.
I think the key word in your post is intention. People are very naive in the intentions of many schools. There are some brilliant brilliant sencos, but as with everywhere this isn't always the case. You're your child's best advocate. (Some parents do take this way too far though).

@DeepaBeesKit

The blame should be the government not anyone or school.

Which I have said repeatedly. No one should be taking it out on SEN parents I'm simply empathising with ALL parents impacted by the funding shortfalls.

I agree

@Flyingsunflower The government did a massive enquiry into this a couple of years ago. They were found to be funding adequately only because they cannot underfund something that doesn't exist. Not enough schools asking for more from high needs block when they need it, not enough applying for EHCPs. The need is there, but professionals are not going through the right channels.

@DeepaBeesKit

* So you are saying parents are annoyed because SEN children get funding meaning their children are "short changed" but are also annoyed that SEN children disrupt lessons because they don't have the enough funding therefore it is not surprising they are "disgruntled".*

No, they are annoyed about their own child. You don't give a fuck about my child, do you? But I should care deeply about yours?

The point is you cannot expect any parent not to want what is best for their own child. Human beings are selfish. I'm not saying that's nice, or good, or helpful. It's not! Its true.

You aren't going to put aside your childs needs for the good of anyone else, and other parents feel exactly the same about their own DC.

The point is that it is NOT putting aside the needs of other children to fund an SEN child. It comes from a completely different pot (or is supposed to) and that is the point the OP is making.

[quote Meadowbreeze]@Punxsutawney same. Don't get me started on headteachers and sencos. Often the case managers at the LAs don't have a clue either. We had all sorts of arguments until I quoted them exactly where in the act this law exists. Then the argument was that the school should have flexibility on how they provide the support.
But when the school wanted to provide support you said you needed professional diagnosis. Now the professional is being very specific in what support should be given and you're saying it's up to the school? So which is it.[/quote]
Thats what i meant when i said upthread about throwing the legal book at the school.

My kid is lucky that i'm neurodiverse myself, and my 'thing' is researching autism/adhd and the law, i absolutely 100% threw myself into learning everything i could about disability law, schooling, education and the school/LA responsibility within that.

If i hadn't been so single minded in educating myself, my DS would never have got the help he did.. i absolutely took to heart that i was my sons one and only advocate and if i didn't push and fight for his right to an accessible education, they'd have just ended up shoving him out as a badly behaved child.

I also took on board advice about making his ECHP very specific about what went in it to reduce the schools wiggle room with denying him what he needed.

It shouldn't take that though, not every parent out there has the ability or mental fortitude to take that fight to the extreme.

I'm autistic and so is my child. I was using it to point out the attitudes of others, but still I understand that you were offended by it and I apologise for using that word. Understood and won't happen again.

Thank you.

Years ago we received a child with a high level of need from another part of the country (still England) father said he had a statement etc etc Turns out he had nothing of the sort.

His original LEA had a 'first response' system or similar where they put a certain level of funding in quickly but it meant few went on the get statements which meant their funding couldn't be challenged (or would be told this the system you're getting money, what's your problem) , wasn't legally binding and in this case meant if the child moved, they were back at square one.

A neat way for the LEA to push issues into the long grass.

Well dd is now in independent specialist where it's a completely different world so I'm out of it now thank goodness. I don't even blame the SENCo tbf our LA provides the training and so they obviously train around LA policy as they aren't going to give SENCo's the required knowledge that will cost them later on. I've been told so much policy as fact by our LA and I'm sure the schools are too and I'm only advocating for my children. I suspect schools don't have the resources to double check everything they are told and rely on trusting the LA to have told them correctly.

The point is that it is NOT putting aside the needs of other children to fund an SEN child. It comes from a completely different pot (or is supposed to) and that is the point the OP is making

I agree with OP that if it came from a completely different pot, as it should, no other child would be affected.

The reality is this is an area where schools and LAs get it wrong a lot and (as demonstrated by the posters with first hand experience on this thread) the money sometimes is not coming from a different pot, especially during the often lengthy period of time while waiting for funding to be accessed.

I'm a treasurer for a non profit early years setting. I review the budget & funding applications etc. During a period of several months waiting for funding a child with profound additional needs, we spent thousands funding 1 to 1 for them. It nearly broke us. The money came from our general budget so directly impacted the staffing and resources available to the other children. The alternative was not to take that child in our setting on grounds we could not meet their needs, and we were desperate to avoid that.

Pretending it never happens is not the answer. It should not happen. it does. When it does it negatively impacts everyone.

@hiredandsqueak unfortunately most LAs live under the belief that their policy is law. In fact policy can never trump law. They don't like to be reminded of this.

@DeepaBeesKit Unfortunately the early years funding is crazy and even quite woolly in law. But in that situation the nursery should've still applied for the high needs funding.