Parents and money

[Potsofpetals]

Name changed just in case it gets picked up by the bottom feeders at the DM.

We run our own business. After a series of bad decisions (that mainly surrounded trying to help others who had lost jobs due to covid. Lesson well and truly learnt) we’re up shits creek without a paddle.

We need £10k to get back on our feet and start again.

The business is viable, I wouldn’t be posting if i thought it wasn’t. We have an appointment with our bank but due to covid etc it’s not for another 2 weeks.

So my AIBU is this. My parents are aware of our situation but said they couldn’t afford to help. I accepted that with the grace that I knew it wasn’t entirely true but so be it.

While I was home for Christmas, my mother asked me to help set up her new iPad, banking etc. I was blown away by how much they had in their current account and online savings at their main bank. When I showed concern that they had too much money to be protected if the bank fell, she told me that they were maxed out at 3 other banks. So long story short, they are sitting on well over a million in cash plus property.

I made a comment yesterday about sorting everything out. Because my cousin committed suicide my mum is super weird about this kind of stuff and she took it the wrong way. Today they turned up to check that I was ok but to also demand we quit out “hobby” and get “real” jobs, they aren’t giving us any money because it’s like throwing good money after bad etc, etc.

AIBU to:

Be pissed that they turned up on my door step to sit in my house for two hours criticising me and DP before leaving because they were cold (I put the heating on for them but it was apparently freezing)

Resentful because while we wait for finance we don’t have a single penny to our names and any money would be a loan that I would pay back. I know it’s their money I really do but why would you not help in their situation? They walked out of the house twittering about it being freezing with little concern for my warmth.

I made a comment to my mum today about going and getting an office managers job on a short term contract until we sort finances She actually laughed in my face. Apparently I’m only good for shelf stacking and care work (not that there is anything wrong with those jobs). I don’t know WHAT THE FUCK she thinks I currently do all day. I literally designed our website, do our account, manage everything but no I’m only good for stacking boxes.

The only back story is my dad was an abuse cheating arsehole growing up. He’s not all that well these days and his character has softened. I’m willing to brush the screaming and hitting under the carpet for the sake of my lovely sister but I can’t let go of the hurt I feel knowing they could help but won’t.

I don’t even know what I’m asking really. Would you lend your children money in their position? would you criticise your already mentally vulnerable child’s capabilities to do a job? Would you walk out of their house knowing they have nothing at all? Are these people good for me? do I need to stop contact for my own sanity or am I being a selfish entitled brat who needs to sort out her own life and my parents are only trying to give me a bit of tough love?

After a series of bad decisions (that mainly surrounded trying to help others who had lost jobs due to covid. Lesson well and truly learnt) we’re up shits creek without a paddle.

If it was a series of bad decisions, no, if I was them, I wouldn't lend the money. How do they know that you won't make further bad decisions and they have to write off the loan.

Could you hire the piece of machinery you need?

Do you actually understand what tooling is @EmpressCixi.

You couldn’t do basic maths and now you think I’m hoarding spanners.

Tooling is a piece of metal that cuts, punches holes etc. They cost thousands of pounds to make.

Thanks for the constant abuse over the last six pages though. Much appreciated.

Yes it was mistake to make the business so cash poor but with a good income stream it didn’t matter and with good credit we will easily get a bank loan which is what most businesses do. If you think most small businesses are sitting on enough cash to replace machinery they’ve struggled to buy in the first place you’re bonkers.

No @FiveShelties. It’s a really specific welder. I’ve tried to hire one already.

Business aside, they could have given you some money for food and heating. I’d do that for anyones who’s house I sat in and that had nothing while I had a million in the bank

This is really bad advice. POA should only be given in specific circumstances, not to give your children free reign to your savings.

It’s not advice, just what she did. I took only what I needed, accrued interest and paid it back as soon as I could.

Still have the POA, as she would rather I have free access to her cash should something happen to her.

The fact that she trusts me that much means I would never ever abuse it.

The parents have explained their position. They are not witholding the money to watch Op struggle. They think the business is unviable. That is a very good reason to not give OP money. Regardless of whether the business is viable or not, if they believe that putting money into this business is bad in the long run, they actually have good intentions.

@CatherinedeBourgh

This is really bad advice. POA should only be given in specific circumstances, not to give your children free reign to your savings.

It’s not advice, just what she did. I took only what I needed, accrued interest and paid it back as soon as I could.

Still have the POA, as she would rather I have free access to her cash should something happen to her.

The fact that she trusts me that much means I would never ever abuse it.

But you saying that you would do the same for your children effectively makes it advice.

It’s a terrible idea and I had to challenge it.

From what you’ve said it sounds very unreasonable and heartless they won’t lend you the money. If they are retired PS workers they probably don’t understand why you’d set up your own business, but given 10k isn’t much to them that’s not a great reason not to give it.

One thing that puzzles me is why would your mother suggest you are only good for shelf stacking if you went to a good university etc. Are you very young and just out of college? Or what did you do before the business? I’m asking because this appears very odd and might help explain their attitudes to you.

@phishy

Oh, I see.

I meant I would give my dc access to my savings. Mind you, in her situation I would probably give one of them POA too, but I have dh so that’s not necessary.

[quote CatherinedeBourgh]@phishy

Oh, I see.

I meant I would give my dc access to my savings. Mind you, in her situation I would probably give one of them POA too, but I have dh so that’s not necessary.[/quote]
Ah, understood.

@Luredbyapomegranate

Not a clue. Prior to this I worked in the pensions industry for 13 years.

You’ve reminded me of something else my mother said to me today. Why do you not like hard work petals. You never seem to stick with one thing. You gave up your supermarket job that would have been a good income.

To be clear, I’ve worked since I was 16.

Supermarket (first one in to do the papers) 16-18. Left when I needed to revise for my 4 A Levels (end of may). This is the job she’s referring to.

Was a temp that summer. I then went to the us in august. I worked on campus during term (all my visa allowed) and camp during the summer. That was for four years.

I got off the plane one fat and started a job in the pensions industry. I worked for the same company for 13 years before I started up our business but no, no mother I don’t like hard work.

I’m not quite sure what else she would have wanted me to do.

So sorry Pots. If you were my DD I would give you the money in a heartbeat. I suspect they have accumulated this much because they are fearful of losing it and having so much in the bank does look like they are very very low risk. I would expect someone with this kind of money to also have shares, bonds, unit trusts etc. If they don't even have those investing in a small business probably seems crazily risky to them. Frankly it also looks like they are a bit miserly. The business sounds great OP. Of course it isn't brilliant that you had few liquid assets but this isn't uncommon (it is one of the things that makes small businesses vulnerable). I suspect the bank will insist on securing their loan against your house. The interest rates will probably be higher than most mortgages these days so it may be worth exploring a mortgage with you loaning the money to your company. Good luck

@Potsofpetals

No *@FiveShelties*. It’s a really specific welder. I’ve tried to hire one already.

PM me with what you need and where you are in the country. I'm in the welding equipment trade, and might be able to point you in the right direction. You might even be one of my current customers. I'm back in the office tomorrow.

I’d tend to try to look at it practically. It doesn’t really matter whether it’s fair or right for other people to help their kids out because you don’t have parents who’ll do that. I wouldn’t bother resenting them because it just wastes time and energy that you’ll need to get yourself back on your feet again.

The upside is you also won’t need to worry about your parents and how to juggle supporting them and your own kids and your business as they get older as they’ll have plenty of money to pay for professional paid care etc. There isn’t the expectation that you all look after each other, so pooled family money and time and resources as there is in some families. It’s more like everyone just looks after themselves and if you have more than someone else then good for you.

That doesn’t help you now but that might help a lot later on. Try and focus on the positives to help you push though.

Higher up the thread, a number of people have assumed at least one of your parents was pretty financially savvy to have got to their position. I'm inclined to assume that they are NOT very money savvy, given that they have extensive cash savings.

And I can believe the combination when I think about my FIL, who I understand tried investing in shares once when he was young, got well and truly burnt, and has remained exceedingly cautious with his money throughout his life. Towards the end of his career he was persuaded to move jobs and did so only in conjunction with negotiating a very good pension deal that has I understand left them pretty comfortable.

I can well imagine that your parents have been able to earn well and save, perhaps especially after drawing excellent pensions. But they sound unsophisticated in how they manage their money. And clearly haven't the faintest idea of how you build a business, let alone the willingness to attempt to understand what you are doing and why it is likely to be/become viable.

By contrast, my FIL has been generous without encouraging us to rely on it. For example, a few years ago when we needed to change our car (semi-planned, got it checked a couple of months before the MOT I suspected would be uneconomic to pass) - FIL heard and told DH, right, here's the money I put aside a few years ago to help with your next car!

Good luck with the bank and I hope you can keep things ticking over ok till everything settles down. And best wishes for "onwards and upwards" with your business.

Ignore people on here - most of them don’t have anywhere near the amount of money your parents do and therefore are just talking from a mean spirited place of jealousy and a lack of understanding

In the scheme of things, 10k is peanuts to them. They should gift you the money, or at least loan it. Classical boomer attitude thinking about the world back when and the “correct way”
To earn a living. You sound extremely diligent and hard working. If I were you I now wouldn’t want their money and I would be giving them some distance. They sound deeply unpleasant and show a fundamental lack of pride and understanding in your achievements, but you should be proud of yourself OP.

@Justheretoaskaquestion91 you could try challenging people’s opinions rather than telling OP to ignore them completely.

At a minimum they should post a bank guarantee for a loan. It won't cost them anything unless your business fails.

You know them - would they consider a Dragon's Den type of investment where they invest for a minority shareholding or guarantee? Have you got audit accounts, forecasts and a realistic business plan?

If you have, but they decline to help, do they have similarly well-heeled friends or family members who are more commercially minded? You need to look past your disappointment for now and do whatever you need to do to survive.

@phishy

I’m not going to go through the whole thread and reply to people individually. The reasons as a whole are not really worth challenging - people are just insulting her business acumen, poking holes in fairly clearly presentation of financial fact, and implying she’s entitled. Nothing to challenge.

Classical boomer attitude

I basically agree with your post but this is just silly ageism that devalues the point you’re making. My in-laws are “boomers” and they’re nothing like this!

In your parents position id give you the money and tell you it was early inheritance.

My mother had a similar situation, when we were growing up my parents were really skint, I remember my dad buying us and ice cream and then having to ride his pushbike to work for a week as he didn't have any money for petrol. My grandparents were the only people who moaned when the interest rate went down. They both ended up in care homes due to ill health, my Mum ended up sorting all their finances out. They have 100s of 1000s of ££s in the bank. My Mum was really hurt, all that time they watched my parents struggle and they never offered to help. As it happened they were in a home for years and there was hardly anything left by the time they died. So they'd spent all that time without ever enjoying their money, only to give it all to a care home.

@FortySeven

Fair enough; perhaps it’s not correct to generalise, or fair. I do just know a lot of boomers who are like this, unfortunately!

Oh OP I haven't RTFT but I'm in a similar position.

Parents v well off and I'm trapped in an abusive marriage but can't get out because I can't afford to go it alone with my children. My parents could easily help me but they choose not to because it's my situation that I've created and need to fix myself

They've just spent £26k on a holiday FFS.

They also think I'm stupid. My mum told me to get a job in a supermarket when I have a degree in economics from an RG university!

@EmpressCixi

Your business sense is sounding worse and worse. You have a business with £330k assets and one piece of equipment is lent out and not returned. And so presumably you need £10k to replace that one piece of equipment. Why on earth did you not have a cash account for the business able to handle the loss of 1 piece of equipment? What would you have done if this equipment had simply given up the ghost and needed to be replaced? You really should not be running your business so cash poor such that you need a loan to replace £10k piece of equipment when you are sitting on £330k in business assets. But you did. And you can solve this yourself. You say it’s tooling at £3k for certain specialised tasks...just pick the worst selling tasks and stop offering them to customers. Cut back the business so you can sell that tooling and raise the £10k cash. Then re-expand when you have built it back up.

£330k in assets is most definitely not cash in the bank. It will be tied up and you can't magic cash out of business assets just like that. They are machinery, computers, stock, vans, desks, and (most likely) debtors - ie customers who haven't paid yet. It is perfectly possible to run a profitable business without a load of cash in the bank, and in the early years you haven't got a buffer to suddenly cough up £10k you weren't expecting. Probably most of what is due to come in from customers is already earmarked to go straight out again in wages, VAT, other liabilities and payments to suppliers etc.

The piece of equipment is relatively new so would not be expected to need replacing, and by the sound of it, is needed to perform a specialist task which cannot be accomplished by using other machinery. The OP probably has ongoing jobs in the workshop which cannot be finished without this equipment. If you tell customers to go elsewhere, they will do just that and you'll lose them forever.

I would not be expecting a small business with total assets of £330k to be able to find £10k just like that. And this sort of thing is what I do for a living. We sell welding machines and lasers to small businesses (and some very large ones). Some of the equipment is extremely niche, and occasionally bespoke. I do the credit checking, the debt chasing and decide how much and to whom to give credit - and for how long. In a situation like this, we would do what we could to help one of our customers who are temporarily in the cashflow shit, and I really hope that the OP finds a solution.