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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to complain to brownies leader

249 replies

Mummytoonlychild · 03/01/2022 14:28

My daughter is back to brownies next week and I've just been informed that she is not allowed to have a drink or go the toilet when she is there. It's a 90 mins session aibu to say she's a child and should be able to drink her own drink or go the loo when she needs to or am I being ott

OP posts:
Burnername101 · 03/01/2022 20:11

[quote falalalalalalablahblah]@Burnername101 kids are kids. I get you not volunteering anymore, your choice, but this is kids the world over! [/quote]
Oh. Totally

I knew what kids are like, just hadn’t anticipated (at the time) how hard the combination of small kids, dramatic parents, arcane church hall regulations plus elf n safety AND GG safeguarding would make it all. Oh and nearby residents complaining about parking. And noise. And noisy parking.

And I work in a very dangerous risk averse industry (think something along the lines of heavy construction or chemical processing) so I’m used to following all manner of very restrictive health and safety rules.

I only volunteered because my dd wanted to go, but has a medical condition meaning she’d need extra supervision. So if I was going to have to be there anyway, might as well qualify and help out.

I haven’t given up entirely on volunteering, I still do a lot of voluntary work with young people, but switched to older groups, or I do stuf in schools where the teachers sort all the hard bits out, and I just do something fun.

SailingNotSurfing · 03/01/2022 20:14

Assuming you have a clean enhanced DBS, then volunteer yourself, as drinks supervisor, and toilet attendant/cleaner, then your little precious can go for a pee as often as she likes.

Are you the same OP who used to complain her child wasn't allowed to go to the toilet during lessons at school?

Offmyfence · 03/01/2022 20:18

@twominutesmore

I'm a teacher. Kids are horrified at the thought of not going to the loo for 90 minutes. Well, during maths and English they are. It's never a problem during art, sport, forest school, school trips, bus journeys, watching a movie etc. I really think the brownie leaders will have a good reason for this, as many pp have suggested, and are not cruel monsters. I also think they will not refuse a desperate child but, if they say that, then they'll all be going to the loo as usual and they won't have enough volunteers to do the cleaning. I think there just needs to be a bit of willingness to work with them and support them really, if we want these things to continue on the goodwill of the volunteers. Maybe just go along with it as a trial, to see how it goes. It might all work out fine.
Oh I do agree! But you've forgotten the second the light turns out at bedtime, they need a drink and the toilet GrinGrin
ZeroFuchsGiven · 03/01/2022 20:36

@Saz12

Most village halls are run by volunteers too though, who don’t much enjoy cleaning toilets after 20 7-year-olds have used them and forgotten to flush - and they struggle to find/afford someone to employ to do it for them. Most of the poor souls who end up on village hall committees get endless hassle... constant complaints about mess from previous users, temperature (too hot or too cold depending on what previous user has done, cost, inadequate crockery /kettles /teabags /milk, funny smells (from the milk), noise complaints from neighbouring properties, wierd insurance rules, and struggle to balance finances of running an old building without enough ££. I’m not, and never will be, a regular volunteer for my local Hall, aside from one-off jobs.
Im on the village hall committee and due to all of what you have said we decided at the beginning of December we will still remain closed until spring.
ZeroFuchsGiven · 03/01/2022 20:43

Oh piss off I'm an adult with no diagnosed condition but wee frequently and would find this awful. If I need to piss I need to fucking piss

If you can't go for 90 minutes without going for a wee then you really should see a gp, You should probably mention your anger issues whilst you are there.

EssexLioness · 03/01/2022 20:55

@IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads that sounds a nuisance! We have been doing this since September and haven’t had this problem (so far). We are also lucky in the fact that there are always 3 or even 4 adults. We have lots of people crying out to volunteer locally, which I understand isn’t the case everywhere.

UndertheCedartree · 03/01/2022 21:24

Our Brownie group did consider outdoor meetings but realised it wasn't feasible due to lack of toilets. Being able to go to the toilet is pretty basic. They have a break in the middle and a drink. No need to get drinks on demand as mentioned up thread! And yes our Brownie leaders are amazing the amount they do for our girls as volunteers!

UndertheCedartree · 03/01/2022 21:26

@ZeroFuchsGiven

Oh piss off I'm an adult with no diagnosed condition but wee frequently and would find this awful. If I need to piss I need to fucking piss

If you can't go for 90 minutes without going for a wee then you really should see a gp, You should probably mention your anger issues whilst you are there.

Except it could be a lot longer than 90 min. I mean, I'm a nurse - I can hold my wee for 12 hours. But if you're doing a lesiure activity you should be able to go to the toilet when you need to.
MrsWinters · 03/01/2022 21:30

I’d guess that volunteers are happy to give up their own time to run the session, but have been asked to clean the loos after if they’ve been used and don’t want to have to do this. Why not offer a parents rota to clean the loos and kitchen after the session do the girls can have a drink and use the loo?

liveforsummer · 03/01/2022 21:39

@UndertheCedartree

Our Brownie group did consider outdoor meetings but realised it wasn't feasible due to lack of toilets. Being able to go to the toilet is pretty basic. They have a break in the middle and a drink. No need to get drinks on demand as mentioned up thread! And yes our Brownie leaders are amazing the amount they do for our girls as volunteers!
Put brownies and guides both did outdoor meetings for a number of months. They reminded parents in each weekly email about the lack of toilets and it was never an issue. Our brownies unit is huge too, actually 3 units in 1 to accommodate the numbers. Rainbows did outdoors too
HoneyFlowers · 03/01/2022 22:00

My child at the same type of organisation. During Covid when they met they were told to bring their own bottle of water, but with meetings outside no toilet for the hour. Went before hand.

What annoyed me about the leader is that she took five of them to the theatre... They were not offered toilet before the show, at interval had to stay in their seat and were given drinks and not offered toilet then or afterwards, my child came out and was bursting! I asked why he didn't go loo and leader did not give them opportunity. Under her care for about 3-4 hours. I thought that was unacceptable.

EssexLioness · 03/01/2022 22:44

@liveforsummer our brownie unit did exactly the same thing during the summer months and worked fine, although meetings only lasted an hour instead of usual 90 mins. Never had any probs with girls needing the loo and all parents were fine

Justkeeppedaling · 03/01/2022 23:10

@Burnername101

Hollow laugh as an ex assistant leader.

My experience (pe covid) went as follows

20 girls, small church hall. 4 adults. One hour to run an activity and clean up.

One girl gets thirsty, we bring her a drink. They all want one, much squabbling over cup colour, spilling of drinks onto crafts, each other. Etc. mass exodus to bogs, needing 2 supervisors (as per safeguarding

Try to do that, clear up spills sort washing up and the activity

Ok

Next time.. same thirsty child.

Allow her to have a quick drink in the kitchen. Still needs 2 Leaders (safeguarding).
She lets slip to the others she’s had a drink. They all want one. Now it’s a revolving door, all wanting a drink. But we can’t supervise kitchen and bogs and the activity this time.

Ok

Next time. Please bring a water bottle. Some thirst Little darlings bring litre bottles chug the dammed lot, need a wee, loose the bottles. ‘Borrow‘ a friends because it looks nicer. Spill them…. Turns out it’s bloody ribena. Grumpy parents because Amanda lost her new bottle, Ella’s uniform now has ribena on it, so does Suzanne’s shoes.

Sigh

Im doing this for free. In my own time. Except I gave up. Guess why.

Ex Brown Owl. This is exactly right.

If we did a hot and sweaty game we would give the girls a small glass of water afterwards, but otherwise asked if they could wait until they got home if they asked for a drink.

Contrary to popular belief, we don't all need to be sipping from our water bottles every five minutes. This is a fairly new "thing".

Justkeeppedaling · 03/01/2022 23:18

@Mummytoonlychild

I gather I'm being unreasonable unfortunately I don't do drop offs or pick ups as I'm in work but I were able to I would love to volunteer and help out.

There are many other ways you can volunteer and help the Leaders, without needing to go to the weekly meeting. Ask the Leaders, they'd be so grateful.

At my Brownie unit ask the Leaders worked full time so we had parents who did shopping for craft activities for us during the week, helped with paperwork and the accounts, organised events when we had peeled from "outside" come in and run them for us - all kinds of things.

Running a unit is not just a 90 minute a week job you know!

LadyGAgain · 03/01/2022 23:20

YANBU and anyone saying you are based on your original post is batshit.
Children take they own water bottles. Children get to use the toilet.
FFS. What is this utter madness. I despair.

LadyGAgain · 03/01/2022 23:20

Oh and volunteering to help isn't linked to a child's access to water and a loo.

AsYouWishButtercup · 04/01/2022 00:19

I’m a Brownie leader and I’d never dream of doing this!!

This while allowing people to make up their own rules is pissing me off, you don’t catch COVID from a toilet, they’ll be in the same room FFS what difference does using the toilet make

budgiegirl · 04/01/2022 00:30

What annoyed me about the leader is that she took five of them to the theatre... They were not offered toilet before the show, at interval had to stay in their seat and were given drinks and not offered toilet then or afterwards, my child came out and was bursting! I asked why he didn't go loo and leader did not give them opportunity. Under her care for about 3-4 hours. I thought that was unacceptable

Did he ask to go to the toilet and was refused? I would be cross about that, but if he didn't ask, then YABU

OP, assuming there are toilets, I'm sure that your DD would be able to go in an emergency. But it's probably best to tell parents that their DDs won't be able to go, to ensure that they use the toilet before leaving home. I'm a cub leader, and you'd be amazed how many cubs need to visit the toilet within 10 minutes of the start of the meeting!

LadyGAgain · 04/01/2022 00:40

@AsYouWishButtercup

I’m a Brownie leader and I’d never dream of doing this!!

This while allowing people to make up their own rules is pissing me off, you don’t catch COVID from a toilet, they’ll be in the same room FFS what difference does using the toilet make

Ah the voice of reason prevails!! Thank you!!!
CelestiaNoctis · 04/01/2022 00:46

That's literally a human right. My 6 year old couldn't go. She's fine with the toilet but if she did have to go she wouldn't be able to hold it for that long, no way.

RoyalFamilyFan · 04/01/2022 01:00

Going to the toilet whenever you want to is not a human right. Maybe you think it should be, but it is not. Lots of people at work have to wait for allowed breaks to go to the toilet.

AsYouWishButtercup · 04/01/2022 01:10

@RoyalFamilyFan

Going to the toilet whenever you want to is not a human right. Maybe you think it should be, but it is not. Lots of people at work have to wait for allowed breaks to go to the toilet.
Access to a toilet is absolutely a human right Hmm
RoyalFamilyFan · 04/01/2022 01:24

@AsYouWishButtercup you should tell British employers that then. Many people have to wait for designated toilet breaks.

AsYouWishButtercup · 04/01/2022 01:27

@RoyalFamilyFan in all my years I have never heard of an employer that makes grown working adults hold it in to a designated time. Who are these employers? Do they run gulags?

DockOTheBay · 04/01/2022 01:35

Our Brownies couldn't use the toilet during our meetings in the summer, we had to meet outside due to covid and toilets were not accessible. Amazingly none of our 15 Brownies EVER asked to use the toilet during the 12 weeks of outdoor meetings. Medical issues aside, 7 year olds can hold their bladders for 90 minutes. Our contingency was for their parents to come and pick them up to take them home for the toilet - presumably you can do this if your child is really desperate, its hardly a human rights issue.

We were advised to say no water, to prevent the need for toilet trips, although in hot weather we did allow it for health and safety.

(Incidentally now that we are back inside and the toilet is available, we spend half the evening being asked about toilet breaks, apparently their bladders can't cope with a 90 minute indoor session, even though outdoors was fine 😂)