Aibu to complain to brownies leader

[Mummytoonlychild]

My daughter is back to brownies next week and I've just been informed that she is not allowed to have a drink or go the toilet when she is there. It's a 90 mins session aibu to say she's a child and should be able to drink her own drink or go the loo when she needs to or am I being ott

@EssexLioness

YANBU. In our unit we have to take extra measures for covid and all risk assessed etc. Girls bring their own drinks bottles and can use the toilets, which we then clean immediately to ensure they are clean for the next use. This works perfectly well and most girls don’t need to go to the loo but of course have free access if they do so

Cub leader here. This is what we tried except 1- everyone uses each other’s bottles, however well labelled/distinctive etc they are. This was stopped due to Covid hygiene. 2- most weeks I barely get enough adults to run the meeting at all, let alone having 2 extras to supervise toilet breaks too.

I mean 7+ year old should be able to go 90 minutes without a toilet or a drink. Mine can go much longer than me and In fact I've stopped sending a drink to brownies with dd as I'm tired of her leaving the bottle there and when it was outside in the park there was no access to a toilet. I still think it should be an option where possible though. Definitely mention it.

We weren't allowed to use the toilets at our venue for a while, it was part of their covid rules and we couldn't override that. Only once we had to ask a parent to collect their child to take them to the toilet as she wasn't prepared to do a wild wee. Parents understood why toilets weren't available and managed to accept this and not complain. We didn't ban drinks but just reminded them that there were no toilets so maybe drinking isn't the best idea if you can't hold on for 2 hours.

@IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads exactly. It is fine in units or clubs where you have more than the bare minimum. But usually, you are struggling to get the legal minimum.

… posted too soon. We have to clean the toilet every time someone uses it. On a “full house” there are 27 kids. That’s an awful lot of toilet cleaning.

I used to run a similar group. It was bloody knackering, especially after a full day of work beforehand. If Covid guidelines now mean that toilets need to be cleaned afterwards, as well as the room being used, then it’s perfectly reasonable to try to avoid the loos being used. These leaders are volunteers.

@riiichteabiiscuit you say the solution is never to refuse a child to go to the loo. But you don't know if this unit can even access loos. Or if they area away from the main hall and so need volunteers to take them.
I have run activities in churches with no public toilet. The church would not allow the children to access the toilet and we had to tell parents there wasn't one. Parents at one time accepted this and worked around it.

I think you should check what the rules are before complaining.

'No drinks' could be that drinks are not provided, or that the children are not allowed to drink from the same bottle (due to hygiene and Covid), rather than an absolute prohibition on drinks. Also, it depends what the children are doing. If sitting down to play games, or even going for a walk, going for 90 minutes without a drink isn't too unreasonable. If they are running about and playing active games, then a drink of water should not be prohibited.

Not allowing them to go to the loo is wrong if it happened as described, but again I'd check. If they really aren't allowed to visit the loo, then I would complain about it.

@IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads

… posted too soon. We have to clean the toilet every time someone uses it. On a “full house” there are 27 kids. That’s an awful lot of toilet cleaning.

This is silly, this amount of loo cleaning doesn't happen in schools.

One clean at the end of the session should suffice.

Spray antibac round the taps, sink and toilet, leave a minute then wipe clean

This extreme loo cleaning seems a bit extreme compared with other venues. I work in a college where we have ONE bloody toilet for our two floors. It’s constantly in use. No cleaning going on between visits there 🧐

I think not being able to have a drink is fine. But not allowed to go to the loo. Thats not acceptable. But if that's the rules then either suck if up or don't send her.

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@riiichteabiiscuit you say the solution is never to refuse a child to go to the loo. But you don't know if this unit can even access loos. Or if they area away from the main hall and so need volunteers to take them.
I have run activities in churches with no public toilet. The church would not allow the children to access the toilet and we had to tell parents there wasn't one. Parents at one time accepted this and worked around it.[/quote]
If there is simply no toilet then it is what it is. If it is too far to facilitate because children will be alone, it is what it is.

But if there is a toilet, that is accessible, and 'because covid' they won't let kids go for a wee, that's ridiculous.

Why anyone would refuse someone the use of a toilet when they could go is beyond me.

Also I stopped volunteering when it went from parents accepting to this, too many parents complaining that we should find somewhere else to run the activities then. As if it was easy to magic up a cheap hall that was available at the time we needed one.
There was a thread on here a bit ago complaining about how the free volunteer-run things for kids largely no longer existed where they lived. This is why.
And most volunteers work and have kids. They are not lounging around and are glad to get out of the house. It is normally the busiest people who volunteer.

Exactly @Nailsbythesea . I work regularly 70 hours a week. 3 or 4 late nights most weeks. Still volunteer 🙈 and actually by volunteering i actual miss out on paid work (self employed)

YANBU re the toilets. This would absolutely not be allowed under any H&S or risk assessment. It's not just the 90 minutes of the session but the travel time to and from, so potentially 2 hours +

I would very politely enquire/push for a detailed explanation. "Covid" is not a good enough explanation. My DSS runs youth activities and had to make significant adjustments to be covid safe and to keep the activities going.

@riiichteabiiscuit if the toilet cant be used because of covid, it won't be the volunteers deciding. It will be either whoever runs the hall or the insurance company.
Because if you are overly concerned about covid you are not volunteering for free with a load of strangers kids.

@Georgeskitchen

I went to girls brigade , late 60s pretty sure we paid our subs which included a small cup of squash and a biscuit. Maybe half way through proceedings. Toilets just outside the door to the hall Can't recoĺlect needing the toilet while there but pretty sure we were trusted enough to go there and back without any dramas

Things were very different in the 60s/70s. No risk assessments, safeguarding procedures, endless red tape. You can't compare it to now it's completely different.

Op - I'm a (female) scout leader and volunteer with the group from aged 6 to 8 and a half.

We would NEVER have a no toilet rule, it's entirely unreasonable.

The kids bring their own water bottles and rarely go to them unless it's hot weather but they are there if they want them.

It is fine to ask that children go to the toilet before they arrive to minimise toilet trips but even adults sometimes need to go again. Raise it.

If you aren't happy, I'd suggest joining scouts. I'm biased but I think it's more fun anyway!

@nailsbythesea am in work the entire time she in in brownies for hours before and after. I did volunteer when she was in rainbows. But the day, time and leader is completely different.

@Paq you are wrong. Activities are allowed to run without access to a toilet for this length of time. You know most church services provide no access to a toilet?

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@riiichteabiiscuit if the toilet cant be used because of covid, it won't be the volunteers deciding. It will be either whoever runs the hall or the insurance company.
Because if you are overly concerned about covid you are not volunteering for free with a load of strangers kids.[/quote]
Whoever makes these rules is a illogical tosser, as long as the facilities are left clean and usable for the next users there should be no issue.

Unless your DC has health issues then I don’t think it is unreasonable for a seven year old to manage 1.5 hours. Give her a drink and make her toilet just before the session and take a drink with you for afterwards. If they were running around doing some kind of sport I would agree but sitting down doing craft etc is perfectly acceptable.

Has your child complained or is it you that thinks it is unacceptable?

My sons scout group hasn't let them use the toilet for a long time now.

They then came back to parents and said if they absolutely had to go then one could go at a time. There's 40 scouts in my sons group.

@riiichteabiiscuit I agree it is illogical because of covid. But most volunteer-run groups take place in very cheap halls. They cant afford the cost for example of hiring a school. They rely on cheap churches and community centres.

if the toilet cant be used because of covid, it won't be the volunteers deciding. It will be either whoever runs the hall or the insurance company

Good point. You should not make a big fuss to the volunteers; they probably didn't make the decision. But I would complain to those who run the hall. Not about the drinks - that's not really worth it IMO - but about the loo. Some children may have health issues that mean they can't wait for the loo, especially if they're running about. If there are real reasons for not letting children use the loo, then you may have no choice but to take your child out until this changes (if it's due to Covid-related restrictions, it may be temporary). If it's just rigidity and 'oh, what if one of these kids messes up our precious loo', then I think they need to know that some parents object.