Aibu to complain to brownies leader

[Mummytoonlychild]

My daughter is back to brownies next week and I've just been informed that she is not allowed to have a drink or go the toilet when she is there. It's a 90 mins session aibu to say she's a child and should be able to drink her own drink or go the loo when she needs to or am I being ott

Yabu to complain

If your child can't last 90 mins without the toilet I'd consult a GP

But if the halls have chosen not to change their requirements based on new guidance thats their prerogative and and nothing the brownies groups can do about it

@bestbefore or insurance company rules.

Surely children can go without a drink or a visit to the toilet for 1.5 hours.

To see a poster claim it’s against human rights not to have access to a drink or toilet is frankly ludicrous!

Why is your first thought to complain not speak to volunteer leader? I’m sure there’s a reason and if your daughter needs loo in emergency they’d accommodate.
I saw an email sent to brownie leader last month about a child being ‘deprived’ of a drink. The tone was appalling. No thank you for taking girl on a lovely day out. The child hadn’t been deprived a drink at all. The parent had no concept that it was volunteers running it, there were lots of other girls to supervise, risk assessments etc. Suggestion complainer volunteer to accompany next time which wasn’t responded to.

I voted YANBU but actually I'm a cub leader and our children rarely if ever need either the toilet or a drink during our sessions, which are often a long hike or something else outdoors with no facilities anyway
However we don't ban them bringing drinks or going to the toilet and i would not be happy if District suggested that. Hence YANBU

Our church hall requires place spotless at end. At 9pm at night when I’m cleaning the toilets after being at work all day then 2 hours volunteering I can see sense in trying to cut down toilet visits.

@RoyalFamilyFan what insurance says people can't use the toilet or have a drink in a hall? Maybe I need to study my insurance for my hall!

@bestbefore insurance may have covid rules that have not been updated. Or the toilet in the church may not be designated for public use and this is included in the insurance.

bestbefore
- this was all withdrawn in July. So any extra cleaning is just halls being OTT or not updating their guidance.

Having seen the mess left by various groups I understand why halls are OTT or not updating.

Like so many on here I suggest that those complaining volunteer.

The church my friends brownies are in would only allow one toilet to be used between 20 girls. I went to help her one night and the church had actually taped off the other toilets.

Their cleaning regime was tougher than our work places and we work in early years.

I bet the leader is at her wits end. The expectations of venues are ridiculous when leaders have been leaving.

I gave up my own unit but remained a member and i'm glad I don't have any leadership roles now.

I don’t understand why your first thought would be to complain to a volunteer! If you don’t like the reason for it or think it wouldn’t be practical then don’t send your DD.

What the Leaders might want to consider, whilst the premises is trying to keep all uses safe through asking people not to use the toilets if at all possible, and asking uses to clean toilets if they are used (on top of the time they give to running the meeting), is cutting down the length of the meeting. A lot of groups knocked 30 or 40 mins of their regular meeting times when they aren't able to offer toilet facilities.

I am a Scout leader and there is absolutely nothing in the youthwork covid guidance that prevents children from drinking water and going to the loo when attending brownies, cubs etc.

It is possible that the church hall has imposed these restrictions on the brownie pack.

@MajorCarolDanvers

I am a Scout leader and there is absolutely nothing in the youthwork covid guidance that prevents children from drinking water and going to the loo when attending brownies, cubs etc.

It is possible that the church hall has imposed these restrictions on the brownie pack.

Doesn't every unit do their own risk assessments though? That's the impression I get from our (utterly amazing) leader (who id never dream of complaining to)

liveforsummer

Every individual group must do their own, yes. They do that using both:

• their organisation's RA and guidance (which is written to meet national guidance for youth work),
• their meeting place's RA and guidance.

The group's risk assessment must at least meet the conditions set on both those sets of RAs and guidances. If the church's is harsher than the organisations then the harsher criteria takes priority.

This is awful. My cub can no longer use the available facilities for a drink (covid) but they all have to take a bottle with them, so it's not a big deal. They can't stop them using the toilets!

@RoyalFamilyFan

And frankly these are volunteers. Some will be good at managing and controlling a group of girls wanting drinks, spills, messing about in toilets. Some will be less skilled at it. But if your solution is simply to say the volunteers should be more skilled, rather than running it in a way they can manage, they will probably just walk.

Exactly. I had no experience of working with children and no desire to. I volunteered as the unit would have closed otherwise! I can control my own kids no problem, but 30 girls, many of which had clearly never been told no in their life was a different kettle of fish. i got used to it over time but it certainly wasn't a walk in the park,

Most village halls are run by volunteers too though, who don’t much enjoy cleaning toilets after 20 7-year-olds have used them and forgotten to flush - and they struggle to find/afford someone to employ to do it for them.
Most of the poor souls who end up on village hall committees get endless hassle... constant complaints about mess from previous users, temperature (too hot or too cold depending on what previous user has done, cost, inadequate crockery /kettles /teabags /milk, funny smells (from the milk), noise complaints from neighbouring properties, wierd insurance rules, and struggle to balance finances of running an old building without enough ££. I’m not, and never will be, a regular volunteer for my local Hall, aside from one-off jobs.

I went on a compulsory first aid course last month for Girlguiding and was with 12 other women (also giving up their Sundays unpaid) mostly brownies leaders. Most still weren’t back in person or only just - hassle of additional risk assessment and difficulties with venues.
If you group is back in person I see that as a bonus and be understanding. No adult wants to see a child wet herself and I’m sure they will accommodate in an emergency. If it’s a cleaning issue maybe you could offer to clean toilets later that night or early next morning before next group use hall. Volunteering to help doesn’t just have to be in session.

I think parents would be horrified by state girls leave toilets in. Paper towels on floor, water on floor, loo not flushed, lights left on. Same in kitchen if you let them get a glass of water 99% just leave for fairy to wash and put away.

*What a load of bloody drama

I take it You have no experience of running any kind of kids group or activity?

What is a load of bloody drama is winging parents complaining their little cherubs can't have a drink or a wee for NINETY MINUTES.

Its 90 minutes!*

Oh piss off I'm an adult with no diagnosed condition but wee frequently and would find this awful. If I need to piss I need to fucking piss

If you want her to use the loo, why not volunteer for loo supervising and cleaning duty?

I've been a cub leader and PTA volunteer.

School discos & movie nights = total nightmare. Toilet along the corridor & Children more interested in toilet trips than the film/disco. Needed at least 4 volunteers to manage.

Cubs. Toilet in corner of hut. No corridors, so no opportunity for messing about and no chaperone required.

Cubs very uninterested in going to the toilet as no opportunity to mess about. Funny that.

I'm a teacher. Kids are horrified at the thought of not going to the loo for 90 minutes. Well, during maths and English they are. It's never a problem during art, sport, forest school, school trips, bus journeys, watching a movie etc. I really think the brownie leaders will have a good reason for this, as many pp have suggested, and are not cruel monsters. I also think they will not refuse a desperate child but, if they say that, then they'll all be going to the loo as usual and they won't have enough volunteers to do the cleaning.
I think there just needs to be a bit of willingness to work with them and support them really, if we want these things to continue on the goodwill of the volunteers. Maybe just go along with it as a trial, to see how it goes. It might all work out fine.