Aibu to complain to brownies leader

[Mummytoonlychild]

My daughter is back to brownies next week and I've just been informed that she is not allowed to have a drink or go the toilet when she is there. It's a 90 mins session aibu to say she's a child and should be able to drink her own drink or go the loo when she needs to or am I being ott

YANBU. I’d have thought in terms of spreading covid/ infection control the risk from children wetting themselves onto the chairs/ floor etc would be greater than sharing a toilet. Not all children are going to be able to hold it for 90 minutes, plus taking into account travel times to get there and hone afterwards you’re probably talking 2+ hours. I’d say this is definitely unreasonable.

Is because they don’t want the hassle of cleaning them? Maybe there could be a parent rota

If You don't like it then don't send her. 90 minutes without a drink and a wee is pretty standard fgs.

@Freddiefox

Is because they don’t want the hassle of cleaning them? Maybe there could be a parent rota

Starting with OP!

What?!?!

My daughter has a kidney issue and couldn’t not drink for 90 mins.

@Nocutenamesleft

What?!?!

My daughter has a kidney issue and couldn’t not drink for 90 mins.

That would come under reasonable adjustments and if the hall management is preventing it, she should of course be allowed.

I run a youth group which also meets in a church.

It's unlikely that it's something the Brownie leader is putting in place. It's far more likely to be part of the church's risk assessment. When we first returned to face-to-face meetings, usage of both the kitchen and the toilets was banned for all groups, including in the Sunday morning worship.

That has now changed for us but it may not have for that church. If it is the church's risk assessment then moaning/ complaining/ having a go at the volunteer Brownie leader will have absolutely no effect other than to make her question why she's putting in hours of her own time, unpaid, for families that come across as ungrateful.

Why not have a conversation with the leader and seek to understand their position? Why would that not be your first thought?

It seems unlikely that anyone is imposing these terms for fun.

Ultimately though, if their terms don't suit you, you can volunteer to help in a way that solves the problem (if there is one), or don't send your daughter. No-one has a right to attend Brownies.

All the girls at my daughters unit have water bottles they take with them with whatever drink they want in them (flat, not fizzy, so can have squash if they like). My MIL is a unit leader and also oversees (but doesn't lead) a couple of other units (guides AND brownies) and they do exactly the same.

Someone mentioned the risk assessment, I don't know if the layout is that drastically different at your daughters place that they couldn't let them take themselves to the toilet or walk to the side of the hall for a drink, but every other unit, my daughters and the multiple MIL oversees, have managed their risk assessments fine over Covid RE toilets, food and drink, so I am surprised your daughters unit isn't the same.

I would ask the leader to explain their reasoning before going in all guns blazing and potentially ruining their Guiding career.

Yep, Scout leader here, we are also asking Scouts to go before they set off because a) Covid and any room we use needs to be disinfected and b) we're meeting outdoors, and one of us will have to go off and lock and unlock the facilities with the Scout. Obviously we can if it's an urgent need but would prefer not to be roaming about in the dark trying to find keys etc.

It may depend on the diocesan guidelines. In our church we're not currently allowed to open the toilets unless they are cleaned after every use - not every group but every individual person (this is a covid policy, not ordinary times). Obviously in an activity with children they may not have enough adult supervision to be able to spare someone to clean the loos every time. So in that case the loos remain shut. It's not the Brownies' leader's fault and it's not the individual church's fault, that's just the policy we've got to abide by.

I know it seems odd these days but we didn't even have a toilet in the scout hut when I was in the brownies and we certainly didn't have drinks. 90 mins isn't that long

@MrsFionaCharming

The church we meet in has told us we have to fully disinfect any room we use. So we’ve asked our girls to go to the loo at home before they come, and we’re not offering drinks. I signed up to run activities for an hour and a half, not to then spend an hour fully bleaching the toilets and kitchen.

Maybe you should consider volunteering to clean the loos at the end of your daughter won’t otherwise cope?

Excellent plan. I used to be a leader at Beavers, gave up as fed up with parents refusing to help, they were asked to do one session per term, not to mention turning up late when we would be hanging on for up to an hour waiting for them. Thankless task.

At 7.30pm after a session has ended I wouldn't want to spend any more of my time cleaning toilets and kitchens. One of the reasons I've left guiding.

We just cut down to an hour when my brownies group couldn't use the loos.

Why are people saying you need to clean the loos between each use? How do service areas, shops, pubs etc manage? They're not cleaning the loos every time. I doubt they are in schools, either. Who makes up these ludicrous rules?

However, I completely understand that if you are meeting outside you can't use loos and at that age 90 minutes should be manageable.

This is ridiculous.

Yes it's only 90 minutes. Yes nobody will die of thirst not having a drink in that time. But we've had two years of this shit. Blaming covid for making stupid nonsensical rules.

Covid is an airborne virus, not surfaces. It is not a reason to prevent anybody using a toilet. And it does not take an hour to spray antibac on the sink and the loo fgs.

Obviously if the organiser or the venue have implemented this that's their choice, but it's fucking stupid.

I gather I'm being unreasonable unfortunately I don't do drop offs or pick ups as I'm in work but I were able to I would love to volunteer and help out.

@JuergenSchwarzwald Our diocesan guidelines are professionally cleaned between each hirer rather than user, but that's not manageable because we can only afford a cleaner once a week so yes the toilets and kitchen are locked with exception of Thursdays because the cleaner is in on Friday. I am allowed to use them because I work there! Don't blame us, we didn't make the rules

@Mummytoonlychild

I gather I'm being unreasonable unfortunately I don't do drop offs or pick ups as I'm in work but I were able to I would love to volunteer and help out.

We'll be grateful others can and do do it? If you don't like the rules, don't send your Dd.

@Burnername101

Hollow laugh as an ex assistant leader.

My experience (pe covid) went as follows

20 girls, small church hall. 4 adults. One hour to run an activity and clean up.

One girl gets thirsty, we bring her a drink. They all want one, much squabbling over cup colour, spilling of drinks onto crafts, each other. Etc. mass exodus to bogs, needing 2 supervisors (as per safeguarding

Try to do that, clear up spills sort washing up and the activity

Ok

Next time.. same thirsty child.

Allow her to have a quick drink in the kitchen. Still needs 2 Leaders (safeguarding).
She lets slip to the others she’s had a drink. They all want one. Now it’s a revolving door, all wanting a drink. But we can’t supervise kitchen and bogs and the activity this time.

Ok

Next time. Please bring a water bottle. Some thirst Little darlings bring litre bottles chug the dammed lot, need a wee, loose the bottles. ‘Borrow‘ a friends because it looks nicer. Spill them…. Turns out it’s bloody ribena. Grumpy parents because Amanda lost her new bottle, Ella’s uniform now has ribena on it, so does Suzanne’s shoes.

Sigh

Im doing this for free. In my own time. Except I gave up. Guess why.

This never mind Covid or safeguarding or cleaning or disinfecting etc

I’m not a brownies or cub leader but if they say my child doesn’t take a water bottle then they don’t end of - there will be a reason she’s not a monster and I’m a self entitled parent shouting about my child’s human rights.

Without volunteers x4 for our local cub group it would run to pay x 4 of them the minimum wage for just the time then spend doing activities would be reasonable - we pay them nothing it’s about £35 a term less than £3.50 per session.

I ask if they need help and offer to clean the kitchen - why don’t you volunteer to man the kitchen and provide water and do all the washing up? If you want them to have a drink ?

@Nocutenamesleft

What?!?!

My daughter has a kidney issue and couldn’t not drink for 90 mins.

Slightly different situation. Accommodating a health issue is not the situation here.

Why not volunteer yourself? Then you can sort it out

*One girl gets thirsty, we bring her a drink. They all want one, much squabbling over cup colour, spilling of drinks onto crafts, each other. Etc. mass exodus to bogs, needing 2 supervisors (as per safeguarding

Try to do that, clear up spills sort washing up and the activity

Ok

Next time.. same thirsty child.

Allow her to have a quick drink in the kitchen. Still needs 2 Leaders (safeguarding).
She lets slip to the others she’s had a drink. They all want one. Now it’s a revolving door, all wanting a drink. But we can’t supervise kitchen and bogs and the activity this time.

Ok

Next time. Please bring a water bottle. Some thirst Little darlings bring litre bottles chug the dammed lot, need a wee, loose the bottles. ‘Borrow‘ a friends because it looks nicer. Spill them…. Turns out it’s bloody ribena. Grumpy parents because Amanda lost her new bottle, Ella’s uniform now has ribena on it, so does Suzanne’s shoes.*

What a load of bloody drama. It sounds like you needed more control over the situation.

At my kids toddler football class they manage a two minute drink break with no fuss.

Grab your sports bottle from the table. Few sips. Put it down. Back to the group. Done. And no, parents aren't involved they sit at the side watching.

YANBU. In our unit we have to take extra measures for covid and all risk assessed etc. Girls bring their own drinks bottles and can use the toilets, which we then clean immediately to ensure they are clean for the next use. This works perfectly well and most girls don’t need to go to the loo but of course have free access if they do so