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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Child maintenance

315 replies

anonforpost · 01/01/2022 18:45

I pay my x 570 PCM for child maintenance as per CMS calculator. AIBU to expect not to pay anything on top of the amount. I believe 570 should be enough to cover all expenses of my 2 year old child.

OP posts:
liveforsummer · 03/01/2022 11:51

It would be lovely to be able to view child support as extra and not rely on it. A luxury not afforded to many sadly. OP's partner may well rely on the current amounts to be able to work and pay her mortgage. If she can't afford either of those any longer then it's detrimental to the dc

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 11:54

@liveforsummer

It would be lovely to be able to view child support as extra and not rely on it. A luxury not afforded to many sadly. OP's partner may well rely on the current amounts to be able to work and pay her mortgage. If she can't afford either of those any longer then it's detrimental to the dc
But in that case you could say well she's chosen to do x job which doesn't pay enough and it's detrimental to her child.

Of course nobody would ever say that but when it's a man it seems okay to judge them for not earning enough.

The thing is it's NOT reliable. Even if you have the nicest ex in the world, it's not reliable. Yes you might have to rely on it but under any circumstance I would advise trying your absolute best not to.

It's still a lot of money. It's not like he's gone ah you know what I'm quitting my job I'm paying nothing.

liveforsummer · 03/01/2022 11:57

Oh I know it's a lot of money, it's more than 6x what I get for 2 dc. Doesn't mean I don't rely on that measly sun though and base my outgoings around it as I have no choice

Piggyk2 · 03/01/2022 12:06

@Getyourarseofffthequattro you keep shouting down at people saying how it is not reliable. Personally my payments are reliable just because my child's father could have a loss of income at any point I don't deem that my payments are not reliable Confused

In some cases CMS payments may well be sparodic but not all.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 12:10

[quote Piggyk2]@Getyourarseofffthequattro you keep shouting down at people saying how it is not reliable. Personally my payments are reliable just because my child's father could have a loss of income at any point I don't deem that my payments are not reliable Confused

In some cases CMS payments may well be sparodic but not all.[/quote]
Ah right so is he immortal then? Unable to get sick? Couldn't possibly ever be made redundant or sacked?

I'm not saying he'll stop paying because he's a twat ffs

Piggyk2 · 03/01/2022 12:15

@Getyourarseofffthequattro we have been through this already. I absolutely agree with that. Please try and see my view point as this is a public forum.

If I died tomorrow my child would most likely go and live with his dad and that would mean his dad would have full parental responsibility as well as finicially. So no your not wrong but I think SOME of us can rely on CMS... not to the extent of living in a mortgage or more expensive rental no. But anything could happen to us at any given time.

Your situation isn't everyone's.

HugeAckmansWife · 03/01/2022 12:26

quattro In my case and sadly as the stats quoted by a pp show, many nrps do choose to be very little more than (and often not even) a financial support. Not all, not you apparently. But many. I'm sorry you don't like it but it is a demonstrable fact. And yes, why on earth should anyone other than adult directly affected 'suffer' for their loss of income? If they physically can work more, longer or drop other personal expenses, that absolutely should come before the cms reduces. Only in cases of genuine illness or disability should that not be the case. They don't get to ring up the bank, utility company or council and reduce their outgoings there do they? Why is Ms a moveable feast, especially if is the result of a choice.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 12:26

[quote Piggyk2]@Getyourarseofffthequattro we have been through this already. I absolutely agree with that. Please try and see my view point as this is a public forum.

If I died tomorrow my child would most likely go and live with his dad and that would mean his dad would have full parental responsibility as well as finicially. So no your not wrong but I think SOME of us can rely on CMS... not to the extent of living in a mortgage or more expensive rental no. But anything could happen to us at any given time.

Your situation isn't everyone's.[/quote]
Well my situation isn't anyone's because I don't receive maintenance Confused I'm just pointing out that anything can happen. If you believe none of this things can reasonably happen well then good for you.

HugeAckmansWife · 03/01/2022 13:15

To say an RP should not rely on maintenance is a sad indictment of te system. Of course any income earned by anyone is not guaranteed but we can't structure our lives permanently around such a possibility. You can put insurance in place ec but ultimately nothing is bulletproof. However. It ought not to be the case that an nrps contribution is so unlikely to be reliable that an RP should see it as a bonus extra or savings for the future. Again, a flaw in he system that should be fixed at source instead of expecting RPs to just cope with or without benefit help.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 13:20

@HugeAckmansWife

To say an RP should not rely on maintenance is a sad indictment of te system. Of course any income earned by anyone is not guaranteed but we can't structure our lives permanently around such a possibility. You can put insurance in place ec but ultimately nothing is bulletproof. However. It ought not to be the case that an nrps contribution is so unlikely to be reliable that an RP should see it as a bonus extra or savings for the future. Again, a flaw in he system that should be fixed at source instead of expecting RPs to just cope with or without benefit help.
Well it is flawed but how can you pay if you're incapacitated or dead? I'm not sure there's a solution and no, I don't think insurance (at a cost to one parent) is the solution.
Jessie75 · 03/01/2022 13:31

The process of enforcement is the issue, obviously nobody expects to receive child-support if the other person has been made on employed diaries or like kind of thing but it’s the fact that it’s so easy for people to get away with not paying it when they are in full health that’s the problem.
My ex-husband is currently employed PAYE but I fully expect before my son turns 18 that he will give up work and live off the cash in hand income business that he and his wife are currently building up in order to avoid child-support. It literally breaks his heart every month to handover anything. I’ve reported them both to HMRC they are receiving in cash more than most people earn in a year. HMRC quite simply have bigger fish to fry, got no interest

Excitedforthefuture · 03/01/2022 13:41

[quote liveforsummer]@Excitedforthefuture I think she's saying that as a grandparent who now cares for the dc she is getting the same amount in maintenance from dil that dil previously received when she cared for the child and complained about not being enough. What isn't clear is why her son isn't also contributing[/quote]
So did @ancientgran pay the dil when the dil had the child?
Unlikely

So @ancientgran expects contribution from her DIL along with presumably contribution from her son

So I’m totally with her DIL on this

Jessie75 · 03/01/2022 13:44

@Excitedforthefuture If somebody was doing me the enormous favour of raising my child for me when my sorry arse couldn’t I would fully expect to pay child maintenance I would also fully expect that the person would receive money from both parents and the state. The fact that @ancientGran feels she can’t go to the CMS to enforce this because it would damage the relationship between mother and son frankly says all we need to know about the daughter-in-law in this situation.

Excitedforthefuture · 03/01/2022 13:51

How do you know the background?

ancientgran · 03/01/2022 14:02

@Excitedforthefuture

How do you know the background?
Why do you think a NR mother shouldn't have to pay maintenance for their child?

Why would I pay someone to bring up their own child? That is a totally bizarre idea.

My son pays a contribution as he did when the child was with the mother but both parents are responsible. His mother was expected to provide for him over and above what my son was paying or do you think mother's have no responsibility for their children?

Thank you Jessie75, I'm relieved that not everyone has such low expectations as ExcitedfortheFuture.

HugeAckmansWife · 03/01/2022 15:19

quattro literally no-one has said am nrp should pay if they are incapacitated or dead (though there is an argument to be made re claim on estate I think). That's such a ridiculous straw man you make yourself sound desperate to prove the current 'system' is a) working and b) the best option. Neither are true.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 16:22

@HugeAckmansWife

quattro literally no-one has said am nrp should pay if they are incapacitated or dead (though there is an argument to be made re claim on estate I think). That's such a ridiculous straw man you make yourself sound desperate to prove the current 'system' is a) working and b) the best option. Neither are true.
I've literally said it doesn't work but your alternative isn't workable. If you come up with an actually workable alternative perhaps we'll agree. As yet, you haven't. Presumably if anyone had, we'd be using it.
Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 16:24

@Jessie75

The process of enforcement is the issue, obviously nobody expects to receive child-support if the other person has been made on employed diaries or like kind of thing but it’s the fact that it’s so easy for people to get away with not paying it when they are in full health that’s the problem. My ex-husband is currently employed PAYE but I fully expect before my son turns 18 that he will give up work and live off the cash in hand income business that he and his wife are currently building up in order to avoid child-support. It literally breaks his heart every month to handover anything. I’ve reported them both to HMRC they are receiving in cash more than most people earn in a year. HMRC quite simply have bigger fish to fry, got no interest
No I totally agree with this, they do need to enforce payment where someone earns a wage be that paye, or self employed. They should absolutely close the loopholes. I've never argued otherwise.
Excitedforthefuture · 03/01/2022 16:28

I’m confused

Dil does pay you. The amount that your son paid her when the child was with her?

HugeAckmansWife · 03/01/2022 16:31

quattro I outlined my solution several posts back. It involves investment, a link up with hmrc, training and a societal shift that makes it unacceptable to minimise or obliterate support. There you go.

Excitedforthefuture · 03/01/2022 16:34

* Thank you Jessie75, I'm relieved that not everyone has such low expectations as ExcitedfortheFuture.*

I’m a RP! Strange if I had low expectations for NRPs!

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 16:43

@HugeAckmansWife

quattro I outlined my solution several posts back. It involves investment, a link up with hmrc, training and a societal shift that makes it unacceptable to minimise or obliterate support. There you go.
Yes and as I said the societal shift won't happen until we stop treating men as secondary parents who are useful for nothing but cash.
Excitedforthefuture · 03/01/2022 16:46

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

If you had to encapsulate your view in a few sentences, what would it be? I’ve lost track with all the back and forth

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 03/01/2022 17:29

[quote Excitedforthefuture]@Getyourarseofffthequattro

If you had to encapsulate your view in a few sentences, what would it be? I’ve lost track with all the back and forth[/quote]
I think the current system is not fit for purpose. I think they need to close the loopholes ie self employed people declaring they earn next to fuck all, and people just simply not paying and them ignoring it. I don't think 50% of costs is something that could ever realistically happen because it's too ambiguous and relies on open and honest relationships which many separated couples simply do not have. I think there absolutely should be a shift to viewing men as equal parents, not just financially but actual parenting and not just "contact". I think perhaps a model such as one that's used in other countries where pretty much everything is taken into account is probably best, but in reality likely won't happen here.

HugeAckmansWife · 03/01/2022 17:30

Then they need to stop en masse acting in a way that produces the stats quoted earlier. Once again the blame is laid at the (female) RPs doors for mens poor behaviour.