Child maintenance

[anonforpost]

I pay my x 570 PCM for child maintenance as per CMS calculator. AIBU to expect not to pay anything on top of the amount. I believe 570 should be enough to cover all expenses of my 2 year old child.

I would offer to split childcare. It’s that or you take him for some weekdays with your newly flexible lesser paying job. That amount of money a month would not quite pay even half of the childcare fees for one of our children and I’d personally fully expect dh to have them 50/50 or pay half of childcare costs if he didn’t.

If your new job is less pressured, any chance of compressing your hours into 4 days so you can do a day's childcare a week? That would let you spend more quality time with your DC and cut £200-300 off the nursery bill each month so your ex might be ok with substantially lower maintenance.

I'm genuinely not judging the amount against what I have received and deeming it enough as it was more, and I recognise the system is skewed in that childcare costs are not considered in the calculation.

I just get the impression from the OPs posts that he isn't out to screw over his ex or leave her struggling, and it's not unheard of for a woman to keep expecting more with no thought for what they can do to manage their outgoings first.

Obviously NRPs should cover 50% of the costs for their DC but RPs should make sure they are being reasonable and fair too.

@carolsforxmas

I'm genuinely not judging the amount against what I have received and deeming it enough as it was more, and I recognise the system is skewed in that childcare costs are not considered in the calculation.

I just get the impression from the OPs posts that he isn't out to screw over his ex or leave her struggling, and it's not unheard of for a woman to keep expecting more with no thought for what they can do to manage their outgoings first.

Obviously NRPs should cover 50% of the costs for their DC but RPs should make sure they are being reasonable and fair too.

Childcare costs as an outgoing can't really be 'managed' though. They are what they are, unless the other parent has selected a particularly expensive nursery. So any maintenance payment which doesn't at least cover 50% of childcare costs is never really going to be fair.

@LethargicActress

It is more about the principle. My choices shouldn't affect our son.

Of course your choices will affect your son, you are his parent! I’m sure she wouldn’t complain if your choice to get a higher paying job meant more money for her.

I think considering she has to use childcare, you need to make it your business to know how much that costs, bearing in mind it will be term time only if she’s a teacher, and taking into consideration any help she gets for childcare costs. You need to make sure that your CM pays half of the childcare cost and a contribution to your child’s living expenses, but other than that your priority is definitely to spend more time with your son during the week so you have done the right thing by going for more flexibility in your job. Then as your son gets older, he will need his own room when he stays with you so you’ll need to think about how you can provide that too.

Not all nurseries offer term time only contracts and those that do often charge a comparatively higher daily rate.

If your more flexible job means you are going to see him more, do a couple of school runs a week, only use 4 dad a week if childcare etc then great, but if you've done it to suit yourself and your ex or child is going to see no benefit to them, why would you expect her to support your choice to contribute less? The actual figures involved are irrelevant. Cms is the minimum. It's right that you should offer half of the nursery costs (or the % she pays not covered by UC) and most will charge for holidays too, regardless if she needs them or not.

As a teacher, it's unlikely any/much of her nursery costs are covered by universal credit.

Nursery for an under 3 is eye wateringly expensive: often over £80 a day. I'm surprised you don't know how much your child's nursery costs. It's pretty easy to find out.

If you can afford it, it would be reasonable to cover half the nursery costs, plus a contribution towards day to day expenses.

plus a contribution towards day to day expenses

On top of maintenance?

As maintenance, Anna I can guarantee that half nursery costs for an under 3, plus half living expenses, is more than the OP is currently paying.

@3mealsaday

570 isn't plenty for a child in full-time childcare. Round here the cost for a full-time nursery place is around 1300-1500 per month. So it does depend on whether the ex receives the childcare element of UC (and how much of her childcare that covers) whether it is fair or not.

The CMS amount in no way reflects what is fair to the other parent or child if a parent genuinely wants to meet their fair share of their child's expenses. The question to ask isn't how much would a hypothetical child cost, but how much does your child reasonably cost? For example, if you could drop to a 4 day week and do one day's childcare a week, that would reduce your child's nursery costs and justify a lower payment.

Your right. But this is not realistic. Most people won't get £570 each month. OP has stated he would like to see his child more too so I think he's reasonable.

@Piggyk2. Why is it not realistic for a father to pay half of his child's costs including childcare? Especially if he is a higher earner than the mother?

Once again I am depressed by how low most women will set the bar for men.

@Piggyk2 most people don’t get £570 because this man earns more than average. His child shouldn’t get the bare minimum. He should contribute fairly so the cost of raising that child.

It’s odd he doesn’t know how much childcare costs for his own child. Surely he was involved in the decision about which childcare to send the child to?

He want to see his child more than every other weekend! If a mother said that no one would say she was reasonable - everyone would say she is a rubbish parent who should be caring for her child 50% of the time.

The double, sexist standards are shocking.

[quote 3mealsaday]@Piggyk2. Why is it not realistic for a father to pay half of his child's costs including childcare? Especially if he is a higher earner than the mother?[/quote]
Did you miss the part where OP stated that he wanted to do a day in the week? Another poster suggested that the mum would save on nursery costs.
Or a you looking purely from a finical point of view only?
As a single parent myself when I need a break I would take LESS money so I can have a break and a social life over trying to get the maximum amount of money.

@Mellowyellow222 yes I absolutely agree with you. But I think maybe posters are quick to jump sometimes. It's not just money and it does seem to me that mum and OP can come to an arrangement if he's willing to do childcare. I don't think my suggestion is unfair to the mum do you?

The childcare is the key thing here.

Also when are you going to be seeing your son more? Have you agreed this?

It’s not childcare if the child is yours!

And he hasn’t said he wants to parent for a full day a week- he just said he wants to see the child during the week. That won’t necessarily mean one less day of childcare will be required.

Just that is not fair to reduce because I want a more flexible job. I don't think she is struggling. It is more about the principle. My choices shouldn't affect our son. well they will and so will hers she needs to get used to that. She's allowed to change jobs too.

@Mellowyellow222

It’s not childcare if the child is yours!

And he hasn’t said he wants to parent for a full day a week- he just said he wants to see the child during the week. That won’t necessarily mean one less day of childcare will be required.

Considering everyone here is discussing the paid for childcare, it's childcare...

It’s really not childcare.

Child care means attending to the needs of infants, toddlers, preschool children, and school children outside of school hours by persons other than their parents.

I think we are entering a deeply depressing chapter in society if we don’t consider a no resident dad as a parent and if we consider the time he spends with his child as childcare.

And he hasn’t said he wants a full day during the week. Just that he wants to see his son during the week. That won’t necessarily mean a reduction in days of childcare required.

@Mellowyellow222

It’s really not childcare.

Child care means attending to the needs of infants, toddlers, preschool children, and school children outside of school hours by persons other than their parents.

I think it's just shorthand for "parenting time that means less childcare is required" in the context of this thread?

The op hasn’t said anything about planning to take on more of the parenting burdens, or standard working hours care that the mum has to pay childcare for, just that he wants to see his child more.
When the child starts school will the op pay half of the uniform and other costs? Does the child do any classes/sports and does the op pay half for those? Basically child maintenance is a joke and any half decent dad who can afford it contributes more to support children’s activities etc on top of the extremely basic maintenance, and decent dads would recognise all the costs they are free of by not having their children at times that don’t suit them, so the mum is left having to pay through the nose from her single income to have the same privilege of holding down a job as her ex.

I was referring to @Piggyk2 who commented that this man is willing to do childcare.

She also didn’t think it was realistic for OP to pay half the childcare bill.

I saw red with the low bar set for men

@Mellowyellow222

I was referring to *@Piggyk2* who commented that this man is willing to do childcare.

She also didn’t think it was realistic for OP to pay half the childcare bill.

I saw red with the low bar set for men

Ah I see sorry.

I don't see why it's unrealistic. The childcare cost for all the days OP or the other parent cannot look after their child should be split between them.

Seriously? You've come on mn to post this?!

Talk about not reading the room!

I believe 570 should be enough to cover all expenses of my 2 year old child.

How much do you THINK this costs?!

At 2 there's not only furniture, furnishings, equipment, clothes, linens, toys, books, food etc which are direct costs - many of which need replacing on quite a regular basis

There's also childcare - I'm guessing from the amount you work full time? How much do you think half that time in childcare costs?

In the uk average cost for a 2 year old in full time childcare is around £270 A WEEK so even just half of that is £135 A WEEK

That's £585 a pcm for half the childcare alone!!!

There's also the necessity for the parent with care to have a home of a suitable size for the child to have it's own room which means a larger mortgage/rent, higher council tax, higher utility bills etc

So yea overall £570 probably isn't enough!

It may seem a good amount in comparison to what others get but frankly cms amounts are crap! The equation used to calculate them is pathetically inadequate and it is only the MINIMUM legislated for cm

Why should ex reduce their outgoings? It's up to you to pay half your child's costs ex pays the other half in fact in most cases (and I suspect is true here too) the parent with care is usually paying out a lot more for child related costs than the nrp

Op says nothing about ex being on UC

I pay for everything while he stays with me

Which is how it should be

So a brief back of the envelope calculation and admittedly imo :

PCM half of each item

Childcare £585

EXTRA rent (based on prices where I am which is a very cheap part of uk) £30

EXTRA council tax £15 (even with single person discount)

Direct costs (food, groceries, clothes, furnishings etc) £30

EXTRA utility costs £15 (and I think I'm being kind there! This is of course without the upcoming price hikes)

Total pcm half of the costs of raising your child = approx £675 pcm

And that's area dependant as I said based on costs where I live which is very cheap

I've also just done a wee calculation on the online calculator and based on info here and even including I ticked having dc 1 or more nights a week that works out to you're on around £75 k far as I can tell!

So even after you've paid cm you've still got £5680 pcm to live on! Hardly on your uppers!

Even if you were to pay what you imo SHOULD be paying which is the ACTUAL half of all child related costs (based on my local prices) you'd still be fine financially unless you're a spendthrift!

Is op defo @lonelydad2021 ? Name change fail?

Your ex must earn around £50k. Why couldn’t he afford to pay £600 to raise his children?

I agree on this one too! Total nonsense he can't pay what he should!

He lives in a one bed flat. Doesn't seem to be living it up particularly.

1 he could be spending in other areas

2 - there are one bed flats...and one bed flats! Penthouses can have one bedroom! Plenty of luxury one beds up the road from me! I see a pp has posted a link to one prob near them

I think considering she has to use childcare

They BOTH benefit from the childcare only nrp isn't paying for their half totally!

bearing in mind it will be term time only if she’s a teacher

Not necessarily - lots of nurseries you have to have non term time booked too to keep a place

ALSO teachers aren't off in the school holidays they have to cover school trips, cpd, lesson prep etc in this time too. I used to lodge with a primary teacher who wasn't even a dept head or anything and she used to always be busy in holidays, friends and family that are teachers esp those that are dept heads etc have tons of background work to do when schools are closed - I really thought people knew that was a myth by now?

It's bizarre that people think the OP would be justified in not meeting his fair share of his child's expenses just because there are some truly shit parents out there who never see their kids and pay £25 per month.

That argument comes up EVERY time on such threads - race to the bottom!

My ex barely paid cm at all! Had to be chased and chased and chased and would pay only frequently enough so as to avoid court! Upshot being over the years he paid a pittance!

This does not make me think or feel that other Rps should be grateful if their ex pays at all nor jealous if like in ops scenario the amount is a large amount!

The op is still as far as I can make out not paying half the costs of raising THEIR child which he should be!

And even if he was it kinda still wouldn't be enough cos the rp is ALSO doing most of the drudge of parenting

So often Nrps merely "Disney dad" which causes problems for the rp and the child too

(Not saying op is doing this but just that it's very common)

Childcare costs SHOULD be included in the calculation imo

This is the major cost for most parents raising a child. If the nrp works too then they need to cover their share of childcare costs as well as the other child related costs

Once again I am depressed by how low most women will set the bar for men

Yep!

Can I also say op WANTING to see the child in the week isn't necessarily what's good for the child especially at such a young age.

It seems more fair but can be very disruptive and unsettling for them