Ghislaine Maxwell.....

[Livelovebehappy]

Ghislaine Maxwell has been found guilty of grooming young girls for Jeffrey Epstein. Whilst she absolutely was guilty of aiding the abuse of these girls, shouldn’t there now be investigations into the high profile men who were clearly involved in the abuse? Clinton and Trump, as well as a Prince Andrew were clearly very close to Epstein, and there have been rumours of many other famous people being around at the time. I actually think Epstein’s death was suspect, and I wouldn’t be surprised if his death had been staged to protect some high profile men from being exposed. Maxwell has definitely taken the fall for a lot of people who should have been in the dock with her.

Didn't PA said he entertained Epstein to help UK economy or summat.

No u did it satisfy your own illegal perverted needs PA.

No doubt he saw the “other” girls as so far beneath his own daughters as to not be even comparable. Ergh royal family need to go

@MsTSwift

No doubt he saw the “other” girls as so far beneath his own daughters as to not be even comparable. Ergh royal family need to go

That is sadly true.

300 Brits listed in her little black book. That does not mean they are implicated in anything. I think we should stress that

I glad someone is recognising this fact. For many 'little black book' is code for 'the big book of peados'. GM has been a 'socialite' mixing with the upper echelons of society since she was a toddler on her father's yacht. I notice that Andrew Neil, also mentioned in the book, is now taking legal action against Jennifer Acuri after she accused him of being a peado on Twitter.

We had a girl named Ghislaine at my school. Everyone pronounced it as it is spelt, not Gillaine. Her parents, the teachers, she herself. (misses point of thread)

No excuse, but Epstein was not the first dodgy acquaintance of the family, was he - dulled sensibilities all round?

No, he's by no means the first. While it's quite right that Andrew's slammed for his choices, it frustrates me enormously that all the attention goes on him and so little on others - including our future King

As for the reason for their tastes, I'd say that comes down to an expectation that they'll never be accountable for anything, and that anyone tries they're capable of pulling enough strings to see that consequences are shut down

This is not the end of the matter, rather just the first prosecution. There will be more when she gives up names and dates to mitigate her sentence.

Seems that PA’s legal team has launched a bid to keep all evidence sealed. Surely only a guilty person would do this??

I think any type of evidence will damage his reputation further if that's even possible. Though it seems pointless because they're "sealing" evidence that they know of. It's so easy in this day and age to dump a huge dossier of information online (eg Wikileaks) and just make it public. It would spread like wildfire and be downloaded and duplicated by journalists so it would impossible to ever remove it. The people implicated in those files would be totally fucked even if they aren't officially charged.

If they are a bit techier (which assuming her new husband might be as the CEO of a tech company), the plan might even involve the blockchain. If the blackmail material was published onto the Ethereum blockchain as NFTs then the perpetrators would literally never, ever be able to erase it.

In terms of her silence, I wonder if there could be some form of carrot and stick. Depending on what she values and how much, this could be opportunities for her siblings (I could be wrong but I'm unsure whether they have persistent wealth and were able to crystallise any of the internet-era wealth though touched) and threats to their well-being? I'm not sure but if she doesn't have children then it might be her siblings she values above her comfort?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

No excuse, but Epstein was not the first dodgy acquaintance of the family, was he - dulled sensibilities all round?

No, he's by no means the first. While it's quite right that Andrew's slammed for his choices, it frustrates me enormously that all the attention goes on him and so little on others - including our future King

As for the reason for their tastes, I'd say that comes down to an expectation that they'll never be accountable for anything, and that anyone tries they're capable of pulling enough strings to see that consequences are shut down

Well, they won't be held to account, will they ?

Sophie Wessex and the 'fake sheikh' - nothing of consequence happened there and she's back doing the rounds.

Prince Charles and 'tampongate' - this from the next man to be Monarch.

The Queen who has on more than one occasion 'asked' (for which read 'forced') bills to be altered to favour her/her family when certain taxes are implemented or revised.

Andrew. Well, you know the rest here.

Phillip with his routine racist comments on trips to other countries. Laughed off, but not funny.

Sarah Ferguson who ran up huge debts and which the Royal Family (which means you as a tax payer) had to settle on her behalf. Also the 'loans' from Epstein to settle still more of her debts. Makes you wonder how much pressure was being exerted by Epstein on the family over that...

Continuing with Ms Ferguson, how about her toe-sucking exploits ?

Harry dressing up as a Nazi ? Perhaps not so surprising given the background of his family during the 1930's...

This list just goes on and on.

Some of you may think this is, somehow, acceptable. It is not. These people have a lifestyle which you or I could never dream of. The wealth of The Queen is astronomical and, yet, it's also only estimated because nobody actually knows. Why not ? She's a public servant. Why don't we know what we're paying, what her wealth is and how much tax she is paying ? Why was her husband's will sealed ? Yours isn't, and neither is mine.

There's also an argument that they bring huge amounts of money to the UK via tourism. This argument seems to stem from a belief that if we move to a Republic all the history, all the old buildings, the art collections, the traditions, all the castles and so on will, somehow, vanish overnight. France is a Republic and they seem to have little difficulty attracting tourists...

This Family is shocking. They are unaccountable and their finances are concealed from you, the taxpayer. You fund their lifestyles and when they behave badly - and let's face it, they do - there is literally no mechanism, short of Madame Guillotine, to be rid of them.

Seems that PA’s legal team has launched a bid to keep all evidence sealed. Surely only a guilty person would do this??

If someone manufactures "evidence" or lies through their teeth on the witness stand I can understand why an innocent person would want it sealed. The "no smoke without fire" gossips would have a field day.

I have no doubt that PA is a sleazy individual but I'm not convinced of how guilty he is of some specific accusations. Stories have changed. If he had intercourse with this woman she was not under age at the time - it was in the UK. I doubt he had any idea of what was going on overall, he's not the most perceptive person. A bit thick.

It's so long ago it's going to be hard to prove anything either way.

The lawyers will get rich, though, which is why they are there.

Obviously not defending her but seems to be the nearest woman who is “staff” who carries the can for the greater crimes committed by more senior men - see also Allegra Stratton 🙄

Oh yes, because having a laugh about a cheese and wine party, is akin to procuring underage girls for men to rape.

If only there were a way for someone in the Royal Family with close protection at all times to be able to evidence their whereabouts during the times in question and perhaps provide legally-accountable witness statements? Perhaps the RF don't want SO14? to go to the administrative expense of consulting their duty records and seeking official statements from the officers in question if this would distract them from their day job.

@Zilla1

If only there were a way for someone in the Royal Family with close protection at all times to be able to evidence their whereabouts during the times in question and perhaps provide legally-accountable witness statements? Perhaps the RF don't want SO14? to go to the administrative expense of consulting their duty records and seeking official statements from the officers in question if this would distract them from their day job.

Will this be the same SO14 who 'accidentally' destroyed the records pertaining to the Pizza Express visit ?

Zilla As I understand it... one of the Protection Officers of Andrew that day/night applied for his duty roster to check it and was told it had been destroyed
(I think I'm confirming what you're saying Deliria!)

On another note, yes PA's lawyers asked for documents to be sealed, that has been refused, and they are being available on 3rd or 4th
January

On VG's age in relation to PA, I understand there were 3 locations he is supposed to have had sex with her, one being NY and I think at the time, 17 was illegal. But anyway... there is no age limit on trafficked victims. And of course he can say he didn't know....

Re the royal family and dubious contacts Prince Charles gave a grace a favour ie free home to Peter Ball - he was a high member of the clergy after sex abuse conviction. Fergie is odious and so is Andrew they need to disappear very quietly but she’s such an imbecile going on tv saying her fairytale day when she married him was still the best day of her life as you do when he’s mixing with one of the biggest peadophiles ever and remember you lay down with dogs you get fleas

Parsley I agree. Not long ago, when all this bubbled up she called him 'a giant amongst men' and 'the most honourable person I know'.

Well... she would say that wouldn't she? Without him she has nothing, and I am sure would be pretty broke.

Ian Maxwell has just spoken out to Sky 5 minutes ago. He downplayed his sister 'flipping' for a reduced sentence. He says he has 'empathy' for the victims but that they were victims of JE, and not his sister.

Quote..
He insisted he was not blaming the victims, or gaslighting them, and that he "damn well" had "empathy" for the women.

"Why would I do that [gaslight them]... they clearly had a terrible experience," he said.

"I accept that these accusers were victims of Jeffrey Epstein. What I do not accept is that they were victims of Ghislaine Maxwell."

He declined to apologise to the women who his sister was found to have trafficked, telling Sky News: "It's not for me to apologise to those ladies.

"I feel empathy for the experiences they have had and for the pain they have carried for all of this time."

But Mr Maxwell conceded, however, that Ghislaine's conviction will help victims find "solace and relief from their pain".

He added his sister had "without doubt" made "a terrible, terrible judgement about Jeffrey Epstein", but said: "That is not a crime".

He acknowledged that Ghislaine "must obviously profoundly regret that relationship" with Epstein.

Unquote

More here talking of why she didn't take the stand and why she won't flip.

So now it starts....

@diddl

What I do find odd is that if PA knew that JE & GM were trafficking young girls he then went on to invite them to his daughter's 18th birthday.

I don't think he realised this was a bad thing. He probably thought the girls were there freely and fancied him.... And I'll bet Fergie and his daughters think the same. You'd have to as the reality would be very hard to live with...

"He probably thought the girls were there freely and fancied him...."

Yes, I can't help thinking that.

Did anyone else hear Sarah Ransome on Radio 4 this morning?

She said that GM was a sadist and took great pleasure in hurting other people. As well as the sexual abuse and rape, she was also tortured in other ways by GM and she was starved. In my view, the evidence points to her being every bit as culpable as Epstein.

I agree that male sexual criminals are more common and are also made excuses for which angers me but this woman was truly a monster.

How does GM have the brass neck to appeal???

@Itsnotover

Did anyone else hear Sarah Ransome on Radio 4 this morning?

She said that GM was a sadist and took great pleasure in hurting other people. As well as the sexual abuse and rape, she was also tortured in other ways by GM and she was starved. In my view, the evidence points to her being every bit as culpable as Epstein.

I agree that male sexual criminals are more common and are also made excuses for which angers me but this woman was truly a monster.

How does GM have the brass neck to appeal???

What does she have to lose ? She's looking at the rest of her life in prison.

Also, I do think with people like her, Epstein and Andrew, there is almost an entitlement that, somehow, the 'lower echelons' are there for their amusement and gratification.

I notice people here (and elsewhere) can't understand how Andrew could behave like this given he has daughters of a similar age. It's easy enough to understand if you realise he thinks his daughters are different and the girls brought to him are lesser beings who are lucky to have encountered him.

Those who know Andrew say he's thick as mince. Empathy requires intelligence and an ability to imagine yourself in another person's position.

Also, I do think with people like her, Epstein and Andrew, there is almost an entitlement that, somehow, the 'lower echelons' are there for their amusement and gratification.

Yes, I'd definitely agree with this. Awful, vile people.

Excellent post at 13.30, DeliriaSkibbly Just a couple of things I'd add:

The Queen doesn't have to ask for bills which affect her to be squashed, because under Queens Consent (craftily named to confuse it with the more regulat Queen's Assent) they're put before her before even reaching a discussion stage in parliament
Even worse, since this was supposedly intended to be a privilege just for the monarch, Charles has been granted it too

And in fairness we've no more right to know about the Queen's private wealth than anyone else ... except that anyone else doesn't have the same opportunities to squirrel away public money for themselves, or to decide what'll be billed to the taxpayer without any accountability being expected

I notice people here (and elsewhere) can't understand how Andrew could behave like this given he has daughters of a similar age. It's easy enough to understand if you realise he thinks his daughters are different and the girls brought to him are lesser beings who are lucky to have encountered him

Totally agree with this. He's the sort who would barge through a door knocking someone over but they are lower class so what does it matter, he is so important that he can do what he likes. We know this, he drops things on the floor for servants to pick up, he's really rude to those he despises.

This isolation for him must be really hurting. Apparently Fergie, daughters, husbands children etc, have all gone off on a ski-ing holiday. He hasn't gone. He daren't show his face. It would be funny if it weren't for why.