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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ghislaine Maxwell.....

325 replies

Livelovebehappy · 30/12/2021 07:20

Ghislaine Maxwell has been found guilty of grooming young girls for Jeffrey Epstein. Whilst she absolutely was guilty of aiding the abuse of these girls, shouldn’t there now be investigations into the high profile men who were clearly involved in the abuse? Clinton and Trump, as well as a Prince Andrew were clearly very close to Epstein, and there have been rumours of many other famous people being around at the time. I actually think Epstein’s death was suspect, and I wouldn’t be surprised if his death had been staged to protect some high profile men from being exposed. Maxwell has definitely taken the fall for a lot of people who should have been in the dock with her.

OP posts:
diddl · 01/01/2022 14:26

"the one thing he had to do was be a vaguely decent person - and he couldn’t even manage that"

How many of them are decent people I wonder?

Seems to me that there's such a great swathe of entitlement running through them-where did that come from?

DeliriaSkibbly · 01/01/2022 14:40

@diddl

"the one thing he had to do was be a vaguely decent person - and he couldn’t even manage that"

How many of them are decent people I wonder?

Seems to me that there's such a great swathe of entitlement running through them-where did that come from?

Well, let's see.

You're born into vast wealth and privilege and you're taught from an early age that you're different (better...) than everyone else. Your vast wealth, unlike anyone else, is not subject to tax.

As you grow up, you see other members of your family commit all sorts of questionable behaviours, none of which are criticised or dealt with properly. Things which an ordinary member of the public might reasonably expect a visit from the police over are swept under the carpet, denied or the evidence is locked away so nobody can see it.

Your mother is above the law. Literally. She cannot be prosecuted. Remember that criminal cases are all "Regina -vs- Bloggs". Who would it be in her case ? "Regina -vs- Regina" ?

Your father was a racist, blatently so, and whenever he came out with racist comments that were, frankly, embarrassing they were just laughed off in the press and by other people.

Great swathes of the public are sycophantic towards you and revere "The Monarchy" as some sort of wonderful insitution that makes the British unique and that we would be mad to get rid of. This reinforces the earlier comments about how you're brought up to believe that you're different to everyone else.

I could literally type and type and type for hours and still not cover it all, but I trust this gives a good idea as to where the swathe of entitlement comes from...

Roussette · 01/01/2022 14:47

@DeliriaSkibbly
I like your style! Yes to all of that.

And I never tire of talking about the book which has educated many on MN and elsewhere.

Norman Baker (ex Minister of State and Member of the Privy Council)
"....and so what do you do?" is the title
(what the Royal Family really don't want you to know)

I had my suspicions, this book clarified them.

MsTSwift · 01/01/2022 14:57

Ohh thanks for recommendation though fear it will rocket my blood pressure!

MsTSwift · 01/01/2022 14:59

The irony that they think they are better than ordinary people when the reality is they are actually far far worse…

diddl · 01/01/2022 15:04

"I could literally type and type and type for hours and still not cover it all, but I trust this gives a good idea as to where the swathe of entitlement comes from..."

Well yes-basically-the way that they have been brought up does account for a lot of it.

You would hope that as adults they might have questioned some of it & thought about accountability for their actions...

DeliriaSkibbly · 01/01/2022 15:20

@diddl

"I could literally type and type and type for hours and still not cover it all, but I trust this gives a good idea as to where the swathe of entitlement comes from..."

Well yes-basically-the way that they have been brought up does account for a lot of it.

You would hope that as adults they might have questioned some of it & thought about accountability for their actions...

What accountability ? I'm not being facetious here.

Prince Philip was a racist old bigot - no repercussions there

Prince Charles entertains paedophiles and even housed one - no repercussions there

Lord Mountbatten was a notorious paedophile (read up on his 'visits' to boys homes in Ireland) - no repercussions there

Sophie Wessex sold access to the Royal Family to suspect people - no repercussions there

Prince Andrew has a list as long as your arm and, thus far, there are no repercussions. It seems unlikely as things stand that anything more than a massive payout will ever happen, and Mummy (for which read: The Taxpayer) will pay that.

DeliriaSkibbly · 01/01/2022 15:24

Also, another fact that isn't well known.

The entire Royal Family is exempt from the Freedom of Information act. Why ?

I suspect they would refuse a GDPR request too. Now we've left the European Union you'd have no mechanism to force them to comply because all you have available are the UK courts and, er, Mummy is in charge.

I actually would really like to see the Royal Family sued over something, particularly when it got to court and disclosure started. It would be very interesting to see what happened if, say, a lawyer demanded documents from Prince Charles during disclosure and they were refused.

Roussette · 01/01/2022 15:31

Yes Del that would be interesting.

Also add to your list there is sealed wills, no CGT or IHT too

diddl · 01/01/2022 15:31

No I know that there's no accountability.

You'd hope that they might want to live as if there was!

I would have no problem with PC helping someone by housing them if he genuinely didn't know at the time & cut contact as soon as he did.

Likewise for PA & his friendship with JE-if he didn't know & had no reason to suspect.

But then to see him after he had been convicted & was out of jail-that obviously takes it to a whole other level & you wonder why PA was so desperate to remain in contact.

FanGirlX · 01/01/2022 15:57

Thanks @Roussette

Just ordered it (once I've read it I might leave it at my monarchy living mum's house 😂).

Roussette · 01/01/2022 16:24

Hehe!
It's such an eye opening book, my DH downloaded it for me a while back Smile

Threewheeler1 · 01/01/2022 16:31

@DeliriaSkibbly

The Royal Family is, essentially, corrupt.

As The Guardian showed, The Queen is not above 'leaning' on governments to get bills altered so that they fundamentally favour their tax-free lifestyle. I find it very strange that such diligent research has been glossed over by every other news publication out there.

The Establishment in this country gets away with a great deal. They all prop each other up because they know, like a house of cards, if one goes, they rest are likely to follow in short order.

Royalists often point to The Queen as some sort of paragon of virtue. I admit she has been a reasonable Head of State, but not blameless. The next one, Charles, interferes politically which is supposed to be a 'no no'. It's all well and good saying The Queen is holding on for William to take the throne, but Charles has been waiting for it for a very long time and he's not going to relinquish it. Unfortunately, monarchy means you don't get to choose your Head of State, and you're stuck with whomever is next in line to the throne.

Royalists often say things like "well, if we had a President we could end up with someone like Blair". Yes, we could, but we could also get rid of him. We have literally no mechanism (well, I can think of one - the French are familiar with it) to remove a bad Head of State with our current system.

With regard to Andrew, it's quite clear Mummy is protecting him - I think we can all agree on that - and it's also quite clear that Mummy (and, thus, the taxpayer) is footing the extremely large legal bill involved - because you can bet your last dollar those lawyers don't come cheap. His ex-wife is a waster, in every sense of the word and I'm not surprised she thinks he's an honourable man - I'm sure, by her standards, he is.

Until we can 'grow up' in this country and consign this miserable lot of misbegotten wasters to the history books where they belong, and have a proper, elected Head of State, I fear this sort of charade is going to continue. Remember - you're footing the bill for this.

So, so well put. Was having just this conversation today. We need to be rid of this system if we are to grow up as a country and stop tugging our forelocks. It makes my toes curl, the fawning and bowing and scraping to a bunch of people supposedly just born better than the rest of us. I can't stand the reporting time given over to royal watching when so many people in this country are facing unbelievable hardship, and that's before you even get on to wider world issues. I couldn't give a monkeys puffhole if Kate is 'recycling' a dress or has had her hair done or is playing the piano. It's so inane it makes my brain hurt. They are absolute parasites. Feels like we have no self-respect as a country. We'll never have anything resembling real equality of opportunity whilst we perpetuate our class system. Whilst we're at it, lets get rid of all titles and honours and have full political reform. I'm ready for a proper clearout!

As for GM, she's lived the life of Riley, knew exactly what she was doing and has been rightfully found guilty so I have absolutely no sympathy.
Rant now over, sorry!

FanGirlX · 01/01/2022 16:41

@Roussette

Hehe! It's such an eye opening book, my DH downloaded it for me a while back Smile
I did consider getting the kindle edition but that would mean not having fun leaving a hard copy for my mum!
EnigmaCat · 01/01/2022 16:44

DeliriaSkibbly
Interesting some things I didn't know about the RF, will read further, thanks.
I've often thought that ruling families, whose lineage goes back many hundreds of years, are descended from people who fought others to secure their wealth. Literally killing numerous others to achieve that position and imposing severe punishment on anyone who threatened it in any way.
Given certain characteristics such as risk-taking, lack of empathy, capacity for violence, self importance, entitlement, lack of guilt etc. I've formed the opinion that they have to some extent selected for some antisocial traits genetically and reinforced this with military-style schooling. Those who don't fit are marginalised or leave.
The heritability for some of these traits is quite high (~30-60%).

AuntMasha · 01/01/2022 17:03

I bought my mum this book a few Christmases ago. She has now switched from a half hearted monarchist to someone far more jaded, sceptical and wary of the institution.

She told me the sad story of the royal nanny, Marion Crawford who was ostracised by the Royal Family for supposedly signing articles about the royal children. The Queen Mother comes out of this badly, she treated this woman ruthlessly and as a result and Marion Crawford twice attemted suicide.

Came across the following article.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jun/25/monarchy.vanessathorpe

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/01/2022 17:24

Just seen Virginia’s legal team asking to see proof that 1) he can’t sweat snd 2) he was in pizza express in Woking

No problem there, then - with their influence they'll soon find a doctor to insist Andrew had some mysterious "illness", and the personal protection officers who could swear he was at Pizza Express are even more easily bought

Roussette · 01/01/2022 17:47

AuntMasha Yes, and like the story of the Queen's cousins, (Queen Mother's brother's children) who were institutionalised at a young age and died in mental hospitals in 1986 and 2014.

What is so awful is... they were listed as dead in 1963. Not true. They died alone and no one went to their funerals.

The Queen Mother was a patron of Mencap, yet never visited them. They were literally expunged from records. This was her two nieces and the Queen's first cousins. Shocking.

derxa · 01/01/2022 18:23

.

diddl · 01/01/2022 18:26

What I don't understand about the business with the QM & "Crawfie" was why a book was published in her name.

Was she duped by the person who she was originally helping to write articles?

QM was always known to have an "iron fist in a velvet glove" wasn't she?

Justheretoaskaquestion91 · 01/01/2022 18:55

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Actually, he apparently hasn’t been able to provide medical evidence 😬

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/01/2022 18:57

Very surprised about that, Justthere - perhaps they haven't pushed hard enough yet for the rest to be brought into play?

DeliriaSkibbly · 01/01/2022 20:01

[quote Justheretoaskaquestion91]@Puzzledandpissedoff

Actually, he apparently hasn’t been able to provide medical evidence 😬[/quote]
This must be because it's such a rare condition that medical staff don't know about it or understand it. I am sure that only Royalty can understand such things.

OverByYer · 01/01/2022 20:31

@Roussette

Not really. They just don't CARE, because they don't need to. They know there are, literally, no repercussions of any consequence

^^ This. Absolutely.

Anyone who hasn't read Norman Baker's book "And so what do you do?"... really should.
An eye opener from someone reputable

Thanks rousette, have ordered for my kindle. I do think I may be rather obsessed with the RF and the Maxwells but it is all so intriguing.
DeliriaSkibbly · 01/01/2022 20:34

Further to the exploits of the delightful Prince Andrew, The Guardian is reporting that Judge Kaplan has:

  • Slung out the argument that the court has no jurisdiction because Ms Giuffre lives in Australia

  • Told him he has to produce the legal documents on the schedule that Ms Giuffre's team has demanded

Apparently his legal team seems unable to provide evidence of his inability to sweat (confirmation as above) and also he can't produce any witnesses to his Pizza Express evening. Remember this is his alibi for the night he's alleged to have had sex with Ms Giuffre.

The Guardian is also reporting that apparently Maxwell was offered a deal early on in the proceedings which she refused. Ms Giuffre's lawyer thinks this was a fatal error on her part (albeit with hindsight) but it does seem to indicate there might, still, be a deal to be done here...

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/01/prince-andrew-lawsuit-virginia-giuffre-effort-block-rejected