To feel like f*** them all.

[Outsidermum]

DH family. They’ve just never accepted me. I’ve been excluded at every opportunity and I’ve known them now for over 20 years. It’s been obvious and it’s also been passive aggressive. In the early days it was very obvious. They’d tell DH they didn’t really like me. They preferred his ex. It was hurtful. They’d try to get him to go see them alone and not invite me. His DM said when I was pregnant that he didn’t have to stay with me “just because of the baby”. They warned him not to marry me. I’ve never done anything to any of them - they just didn’t warm to me. I honestly can say hand on heart I was always lovely and really tried. My face just didn’t fit. I am very non confrontational and mild, I’ve put up with more than many would. Even when I knew what had been said about me I’d sit there in my PIL house being friendly and pretending to be comfortable and happy, wishing it was time to leave already. My DH never showed any sign that he wasn’t in a happy relationship and always defended me (quietly to them in private of course). Sometimes he didn’t notice the smaller digs or actions but that’s men for you.
A couple of his female siblings are nice to me on the surface and stab me when my back is turned. I’ve learned not to trust them. The SIL is as bad. BIL are both kind but they don’t rock the boat and why should they. When we got married abroad it was the perfect excuse for them all not to come (by then I was glad not to have them there). Photos of us were never put on display in his parents house. Even when we gifted them of us and the DC. Photos of his ex were put on display in the upstairs bedroom where we slept when we stayed over. They’d not been there the first time DH showed me his old room. It was shocking now I think about it more. I kept thinking it must have been accidental - why would you put out photos in frames of DH with his ex. I wouldn’t have the nerve to be so blatant.
The children of his siblings referred to DH as Uncle DH and I was just outsider mum (we are talking years in, kids that never knew him without me). Presents would be received with “Thank you DH” or “Thankyou Uncle DH” and I would be sat there, the one that bought the gifts! My FIL wanted to take photos of DH and our DC. DH tried to include me and was met with “we will have one with everyone in, in a minute”
I’ve stopped caring. I now feel like “f* them” We moved some distance away from them all in the first few years and I now don’t feel inclined to visit. In fact I don’t feel inclined to visit ever again. I don’t answer the phone when they call. We only go to see them now for large family events and I’m even considering just making my excuses. I’m sure DH would feel more comfortable without me there and I know I don’t want to go! Yesterday DH had a text from one of the nephews who’s now a teenager “Thank you Uncle DH for xyz” I just give up. In the early days so many things were said that I actually used to think I could leave DH and never have to endure them again. I still have this thought. Sorry this was so long and well done if you got this far. I suppose my point is, I feel like I want to detach from them all. To protect my mental health. Life’s too short to have to mix with people who don’t like you and treat you like a piece of crap. AIBU?

@elfycat

I'm NC with my bullying, PA, vile PILs. They'd wait until DH was out of the room and start in on me. When I had DC and had that post-natal fog they ramped it up.

DH was a product of his family. You've not said what your DH is in their dynamic, but mine was the scapegoat child, the accidental pregnancy too soon after his sibling's birth. The useless, stupid, unpractical one he's an engineer with a degree and he's always, always wrong in their eyes. He couldn't defend me because he himself needed to get out from under their bullying. I always come onto threads where the DH is expected to do better to say sometimes by posters. Sometimes they just can't, and if they are a victim too - well we don't blame those...

Go NC as it's the best thing for you. Completely NC with anyone of that ilk.

This. People are too hard on the op husband.

In an ideal world DH would be a man that could stand up to his family and protect his woman. In reality if he were like that I’m sure there would be other areas where he wasn’t so great. Also they’d be worse. When he has stood up against his DM the sisters have each been on the phone bullying him. He’s always said he was the black sheep. He probably feels that way because he is nice and they are not! I’ve accepted that my DH is scared to make too much fuss with them and I know he finds it really awkward. When he would mention things they would gaslight and make him and me feel stupid. He never makes me feel like he takes their side though, just that he’s on mine but a bit quietly.

Not in an ideal world OP

In a loving and supportive relationship

so really he wouldnt miss out on going nc either-he knows hes not liked yet still panders to them

i woldnt bother buying them presents or visiting and sotp feeling gulty about how they will react its not your problem

Imagine how great you’re going to feel when you realise you never have to see or speak to them again! You owe them nothing, leave them to their petty, nasty lives. You’re free!

my mil once had a problem with me my dh straight away said you ether apologise or i wont talk to you again

and they were very close

thats how it s supposed to go

I suspect that once you back away his relationship with his family will drift naturally as he will see them for what they are. I doubt he will want to spend much time in their company without you there.

@Outsidermum

In an ideal world DH would be a man that could stand up to his family and protect his woman. In reality if he were like that I’m sure there would be other areas where he wasn’t so great. Also they’d be worse. When he has stood up against his DM the sisters have each been on the phone bullying him. He’s always said he was the black sheep. He probably feels that way because he is nice and they are not! I’ve accepted that my DH is scared to make too much fuss with them and I know he finds it really awkward. When he would mention things they would gaslight and make him and me feel stupid. He never makes me feel like he takes their side though, just that he’s on mine but a bit quietly.

He sounds like he's survived them pretty well. All these people saying what he ought to do must be imagining he's the product of a reasonable upbringing by parents who were nurturing and emotionally responsive. Of course it would be great if he could stand up to them, but FOG, futility, knowing the consequences of escalating are worse than the status quo, all these things can come between a human and their ideal course of action.

We raise our sons well as best we can because we know they are tender developing humans the same as any female, and if you muck someone up enough in all the many various possible ways there are to do that, you can create a person who's less able than others to handle this or that situation, or who is abusive themselves, or has mal-adjusted coping mechanisms etc etc, the list goes on and on.
This family are poison and your dh sounds like a decent guy (miraculously). You'll both enjoy the freedom of realising you're flogging a dead donkey trying to maintain a mutually happy relationship with these nasty pieces of work.

You're angry with the wrong people. These people are nobodies - you didn't choose them and they didn't choose you. They're rude drama llamas by the sound of it, but you don't need to spend any energy on them.

However, your husband is supposed to be the person who loves you more than anyone else in the world, and he's happily sat by and watched you in this pain for 20 years because it's easier for him. What a prince.

I have a somewhat different situation in my own case - my BIL is an utter arsehole and has said some unbelievably vile stuff to me.

However, he's an arsehole to everyone, including DH and the rest of the family. MIL has, IMO, pandered to him for years to try to stop his outrageous behaviour - of course it hasn't worked, so now we have a mid-40s toddler-like man who throws tantrums and everyone just bows under it. However, if MIL stands up to him, then he escalates to the point of madness - standing in the street shouting and swearing at all and sundry, screaming at his mother, breaking furniture etc. He's had restraining orders out against him, he's been in jail, he's under good behaviour bonds, he's court-ordered to no longer drink alcohol - but all of that means nothing to him when his will is crossed and off he goes. So far he hasn't been physically violent to his mother but the verbal abuse is horrendous.

DH won't cut him off. MIL won't cut him off. I have done my best to have nothing to do with him and that will be for all time - he is irredeemable. But I can't cut DH and MIL off for still dealing with him - DH is trying to support his mother, she is the "weak" one - but is she? She's a victim of his abuse, as is DH, as have I been.

Bullies are hard to stand up to, especially when they're your own family. I can't entirely blame OP's DH for not managing it. It's at least something that he acknowledges to the OP that their behaviour is shit, rather than gaslighting her that everything is "normal" and she is just "hypersensitive".
Yes, he should have told them to behave themselves in a civilised manner from the outset - but none of us are perfect in our behaviours and interactions with others. I don't think the OP should dump her DH over this - but I do think she can make a unilateral decision at this stage to dump his family.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad
I wouldn’t be dumping my DH over advice received from strangers that don’t know him but thank you for understanding. Your situation sounds worse in many ways however at least you have concrete irrefutable evidence of BIL behaviour whereas like you say, I’d be told I was being hyper sensitive or imagining it. Not by DH but his family don’t think they’re wrong - they just think they can’t help it if they don’t like someone. To some extent that’s true but most people can still make someone feel accepted even if they’re not. A family dynamic changes when a new person enters the fold. I was the last one in as the others were all well established. They perhaps were not liking the change and were more comfortable with she who came before me. But I’m still here and they’d prefer I wasn’t even if DH would then be sad.

Good god I don't know why you haven't stopped all contact until now, absolutely don't bother with them again. Also, why do you buy their gifts, get DH to do it!

Please take a huge step back. No more presents. It might be coming across to the in laws that you are trying too hard to fit in - which has made you a target - when actually you have just been trying to keep up a good relationship for the sake of your DH and DC. Forget about all that now. Nothing is going to change and you will be better off without these in laws.

@Outsidermum
Sounds like you have changed your mindset towards these people and they will no longer have any power to influence your life. Stay strong.

My in laws also don't like me, constantly compare me to my DH brothers gfs or wives who all live close by and seem to have everything in common. In past 10 years I've tried to be as nice to them as possible but they never accepted me. Special occasions like birthdays and christmas have always been a pain because they totally ignore me or address me only to ask awkward questions. Then give me the most crappy presents ever and give really nice things to their other DILs. I don't care about their presents as im only there for DH sake so I just say thanks and take it. DH doesn't like to call out their behaviour as they always make him think he don't see them as much as his other brothers and thats the reason for their treatment towards me as I don't "mix" with them. I try tho I'm polite I try to engage in a conversation with them I just cant gossip like they do.

I considered leaving DH as I'd always come back from his familys visits depressed. I would say to him what have I ever doen to them and that he doesn't take a stand. But he always said ok next time he would confront his family and ask them but he hates doing that. I felt like I can't put up with this negativity all life and he doesn't see it properly but then I didnt want to leave him just because of them.

I decided that I won't have no contact with them and DH can visit them as he pleases. So didnt visit them at all for about 2 years and all their bad behaviour got eliminated in DH eyes. It went from him saying ok yea he understands and they are idiots to him saying " they really wanted to see u, u should have come they always ask about u". If I tried to remind him why I don't I sounded like a broken record and a sad person who is holding grudges about old things. It started causing arguments between us because DH would say this or that nephew is now this old and I should see them I'm their auntie and everyone complains that I don't see them. I started visiting them again but very little contact they still do the same things but I just try not to think about it too much once back at home.

I would 100% not let my kids visit them without me. Yes they won't hurt them but there's a chance that they will compare them to DH brothers kids and question them about me not visiting. If I go with the kids and DH they can see if any1 is being mean but if I don't go I'm making my kids think that I just don't like their grandparents amd uncles etc even if I have genuine reasons. I also dont want in laws to think that they can just have a relationship with the kids without their mother as they tried to do with DH. So I go there when necessary with the kids for as little time as possible to not look rude and keep the peace.

pixiedust3x wow! And all that is necessary cos your dh has a rotten/selective memory. 🤦‍♀️

@Pixiedust3x - that’s so sad. You do know that your DH just needs you there to be the buffer to save his own discomfort? He is throwing you under the bus to take all the usual sly abuse - because when you are not there he has to absorb it.

Good for you for not exposing your DCs to this - your DH can’t be trusted to protect them.

Step back more - don’t bother telling your DH - arrive late / leave early if you do go - or accept the two or so a year and at the last minute manufacture a diary clash that involves your DCs.

@Pixiedust3x Oh it sounds so familiar. DH family would do that all nicey nicey if I was absent too. It then makes you look like the one with the problem. This could easily happen to me too. I guess I’ll have to see! Do I care if I plan to never see them again.,…..

Dear Outsidermum - new year, new you, new happy life. I think your DH is a victim too, but it looks like you're the one with the strength to change it all for both of you and your DC. Good luck, try not to waver but don't blame yourself if you do see these vile bullies more than you'd like while you work out your withdrawal strategy (if not going into full-on NC) and enjoy your freedom.

@Pixiedust3x “ It went from him saying ok yea he understands and they are idiots to him saying " they really wanted to see u, u should have come they always ask about u".”

This is the classic being “nice” - to hoover you back enough so that you are within punching distance so that they can start again with the abuse. It’s not nice it’s a classic strategy of the bully. They can’t cope with not having a scapegoat to bitch about and focus on.

@Outsidermum yes, I wouldn't see it as any kind of ''authenticity'' to let somebody know that I feel a bit wary or on edge around them. What's the point! And I would rather somebody who didn't like me made some effort to disguise it, especially in a group. I have a cousin who cast me in the role of her enemy and she gave / gives me the silent treatment indefinitely. It does seem to me like the height of immaturity. She was welcome to dislike me. That would have been her absolute prerogative. But to make me so aware of it? Bizarre. Why does she need me to know that she dislikes me? How does that serve her or improve the situation. It doesn't. What it does is keep me in my place. That's the real goal when people behave like this. There's something about you that makes them feel inferior so they cut you down, unsettle you by acting like you're the dislikeable one.

@TopCatsTopHat @ ESGdance
It frustrates me so much when DH expects me to go, if my family were doing anything like that to him I would sit with them and ask what their problem was and not visit them again if they carried on. But I have a different relationship with my family, he's from a broken family. His dad remarried someone who isn't keen on any of them. She rarely allows them to visit, when she does they all get so excited and if our plans clash with it they don't like it.

His mother always has her own issues. Before he met me he was always doing things for his mother and siblings, always helping them out financially and emotionally. They call him the "nicest" in the family. But when he moved out with me they hated it so much, it was almost like they expected him to never have a life of his own. We would visit them often coz he wanted to and even after 4 or 5 hours of intolerable behaviour and no food (don't expect them to cook for us but y sit there that long. He would say let's get takeaway but no1 agreed on 1 thing) they would get funny when I said to him we should get going we got work in the morning. They see that as me being bossy! they would sigh and say to him "ah see u whenever then".

If we didn't go 1 weekend coz we had our own plans, calls from his siblings and even nan start then they don't speak to him at all. He gets miserable because they all exclude him on purpose. Its just how hes been brought up they manipulate him. There's some desperation he has about his family that even when he himself says don't wana see them after someone has done something, later on he says they are not that bad. So I just try to see and discuss them as less as possible with him. They are not worth running my relationship over.

@Luckyducky75

Good god I don't know why you haven't stopped all contact until now, absolutely don't bother with them again. Also, why do you buy their gifts, get DH to do it!

Agree with this! 20yrs too long you've waited to go NC