To be potentially homeless when I’m old?

[Dogmummy1980]

I’ve been with DP now for 2.5 years and we moved in together a few months ago - me moving into his house. I was renting a property previously and also moved in with debts that are now almost clear. We have 4 kids, 2 each, none together. I’ve always said if it is that we split I would never claim for his house - I don’t own a property and his is mortgaged but in the instance we split it wouldnt feel right me doing so. He is divorced and it was their marital home. I pay half of the household outgoings each month

However my mind is niggling at me - if we are together until he dies then what then for me? When I’ve brought it up he has simply said to trust that his kids/family wouldn’t see me having to move out immediately. Whaaaattt??? He has also now claimed I am asking this as I am after money - I’m absolutely not as my only question has been if/when we were elderly. I am also aware I would never be in his will - the entire lot would be for his kids. I’m a benefactor in my mums will so eventually I would be ok money wise (as much as I hate to think of this idea)

So essentially for me to ensure I have somewhere to live when I am old I would need to buy a property and rent it out for the next goodness knows how long - something I really don’t want to have to do but I see no other way to protect myself when I’m old. I rented out my now sold (at a loss) property before and it’s been all manners of hassle.

AIBU to think this is ridiculous that I’m having to do this? That you either want to build a life with someone or you don’t??? And certainly if you are planning on spending to next 30+ years with someone you wouldn’t just expect your DP to leave their home at that sort of age in those circumstances?? I just feel lost/bereft - huge mix of emotions really!

@GloriaSicTransitMundi

The girlfriend has had the benefit of living totally free (housing, food, clothes, toiletries, private dentist, medical insurance, car, holidays, plus every other expense) for 18 years so far and hopefully many more for the duration of my DF's life. She doesn't cook and the cleaner cleans, so she's a holiday companion really, rather than a home maker.

At the end of the day, it's her issue, not mine, that she a) never bought a property of her own and b) never had any sort of job of her own. She's never worked, so I'm not even sure how she'd qualify for the full state pension.

Also, 3 of her 4 children live either free or for a substantially reduced rent in properties owned by my DF.

They'll have the length of probate to vacate, so 6-12 months or longer.

100% though I expect a legal battle on her part to remain in the house!! My counter argument is that the funds from my late DM's business bought the properties, the girlfriend hasn't financially contributed to the running of the main house, she hasn't physically maintained the house and further, she hasn't done a days work in the business. She's benefited 100% and contributed 0%.

In any case, she has no money to maintain the house and land, so I'm hopeful no court would determine that she has a lifetime interest, as I'd end up with a dilapidated property that diminishes in value.

Appreciate that this is a different case to the OP, who is paying half for the running of that house and also doing the majority of housekeeping.

@LethargicActress

Does she know this? How much time will you give her should your DF go first? A live-in girlfriend of eighteen years is a DP, not just a girlfriend. This doesn't sound very nice, please say some sort of provision will be made, or at the very least a reasonable notice period will be given, even if your DF doesn't seem to have bothered to make arrangements for someone he's been with for nearly two decades.

Why is it only one partners responsibility to ‘make provision’ when the other partner has come to the relationship with nothing and has not worked or contributed.

People criticising that posters posters DF, saying he’s man or not very nice, what’s that about? He isn’t obliged to disinherit his children just because he’s had a long term relationship. His house will have half belonged to his late wife, he doesn’t have the moral right to pass that half onto someone else after his death when the late wife would presumably have wanted her share to go to her children upon their fathers death.

Everyone has a responsibility to make provision for their own old age, even more so if they are currently dependent on someone else. Unless married, no one should expect to be provided for by a spouse with existing children.

I didn't suggest any sort of disinheriting, just that a reasonable notice period might be given. Pure humanity - she will have lost her partner, surely she could have a set notice period of say 3 - 6 months to make other arrangements and to be aware of this notice period rather than given her marching orders in the immediate aftermath of her DP's death while grieving. There's a separate issue of what might morally be owed her if she's looking after him should he become ill, that's separate from just common courtesy before the children of her partner claim their inheritance.

@PoshWatchShitShoes ok, I've just seen your much longer post Fri 31-Dec-21 11:26:49 and this changs everything.

[quote GloriaSicTransitMundi]@PoshWatchShitShoes ok, I've just seen your much longer post Fri 31-Dec-21 11:26:49 and this changs everything.[/quote]
Which is why more detail should have been provided instead of your stark original post implying the DF's girlfriend would be thrown out on the streets as the coffin was leaving...

@Hont1986

I think DP was largely in the right here. Imagine a thread where a woman says her higher earning boyfriend had moved in with his two kids while he pays off debts. Now he's demanding to be put on the deeds or into the will to stay in the house when she dies (they've only been living together a few months, mind) and he's refusing to pay his share of the rent they agreed before he moved in. Now that he hasn't got what he wants, he and his kids are going to continue living with her, rent free, while he saves up for a deposit!

Good luck posting this. You’re right, but loads of people will be along shortly to explain how this is different

Op I’ve read all your posts and I’m not really clear. Are you saying you’re now not going to pay towards the mortgage (or pay your partner rent) at all?

Effectively live rent free?

@PoshWatchShitShoes

Save yourself an expensive legal battle, and gift her one of your Dad's smaller properties. Kinder and much less hassle. You'll look good and she will be grateful.

He should put a "life interest" for you in his will so that his children have to allow you to stay in the property but you don't own it.

There can be additional clauses about it terminating upon remarriage too.

Do not leave yourself at risk, if he won't do this then you need to get your own place.

PoshWatchShitShoes are you certain your DF’s partner is not going to inherit the house? There was another thread on mumsnet where the father told his daughter she would inherit and actually it went to his partner.

Carefull OP you’re fast heading in to ‘nose cutting to spite your face territory’ by suggesting unilaterally reneging on a financial agreement. You have absolutely no claim on his property and he could kick you out without notice. If having a roof over your head in your dotage was a priority you should have been saving for a future house purchase the second you moved in.

You have benefited financially from moving in, don’t let entitled bravado obscure that.

You have benefited financially from moving in, don’t let entitled bravado obscure that.

Sorry what?

OP has benefited financially from a new job with higher pay. How does she benefit from paying someone else’s mortgage with nothing to show for it; getting him a new car that she only gets to use at weekends despite the fact she needs it for work.week; paying for renovation work to his property and paying for his holidays? Oh and paying extra for utilities in case they increase in the future.

@Hont1986 I would be saying the same as I said here. That the DP has to look out for his own financial future.
But you missed off lots of pertinent information in your pretend post.

Yabu. I have a home and mortgage, I'm a single parent like you and your partner.

If my bf ever moved in then I'd get a legal agreement drawn up so he couldn't claim on my property - he has debts and I've been paying in for over 20 years to my home. No way would I let a partner have any of my kids inheritance.

Sorry but as your OH I'd be very worried that you were looking for money from me. The mortgage isn't the only 'cost' of home ownership, presumably he also has a large amount of equity invested which you haven't.

If you want a property then you could offer to buy one with him, so you are equal (although it doesn't sound like you have a deposit?) or you could buy alone.

I'd have alarm bells in his position though, you've only been together a short time and you sound like you're planning an inheritance from him in decades to come.

@PoloMintHum

Yabu. I have a home and mortgage, I'm a single parent like you and your partner.

If my bf ever moved in then I'd get a legal agreement drawn up so he couldn't claim on my property - he has debts and I've been paying in for over 20 years to my home. No way would I let a partner have any of my kids inheritance.

Sorry but as your OH I'd be very worried that you were looking for money from me. The mortgage isn't the only 'cost' of home ownership, presumably he also has a large amount of equity invested which you haven't.

If you want a property then you could offer to buy one with him, so you are equal (although it doesn't sound like you have a deposit?) or you could buy alone.

I'd have alarm bells in his position though, you've only been together a short time and you sound like you're planning an inheritance from him in decades to come.

I didn’t read the OP like that at all. All the OP wanted to know was that she wouldn’t be immediately turned out of her home if he died before her. I don’t think that’s too much of an ask to be honest!

@Booklover3 if my bf moved in and asked me that question then I'd have alarm bells ringing. I'd assume he was wanting the house I'd paid into for decades and he'd just started paying some rent into.

If OP was still renting then she wouldn't get a house if he died, why would she now?

They aren't married, his duty is to his kids, not his gf. Same as my duty is to my kids, not my boyfriend.

How’s this any different to renting?

@Bluntness100

How’s this any different to renting?

Tenants have a signed contract and rights.

@Booklover3

I didn’t read the OP like that at all

Or rather the poster didn’t read the thread at all.

Well done for changing things and planning ahead. He's shot himself in the foot. Why not hang on until you can be more prepared?

@Hont1986

I think DP was largely in the right here. Imagine a thread where a woman says her higher earning boyfriend had moved in with his two kids while he pays off debts. Now he's demanding to be put on the deeds or into the will to stay in the house when she dies (they've only been living together a few months, mind) and he's refusing to pay his share of the rent they agreed before he moved in. Now that he hasn't got what he wants, he and his kids are going to continue living with her, rent free, while he saves up for a deposit!

I think you should rtft. She's paying half the mortgage and a higher proportion of the bills. He also expects her to pay for home improvements such as new carpets and bathroom, a new car, a holiday home and holidays. The op wasn't even asking to be put on the deed, she just wanted some protection. Currently all she's doing is making his life better, increasing his children's inheritance while leaving nothing for her own kids. All of that and can be kicked out at anytime.

@fulanigirl I think you should rtft.

She's paying half the mortgage and a higher proportion of the bills.
She should be paying more than half the bills anyway because she is the higher earner! And she has started to refuse to pay towards the mortgage and the higher share of the bills.

He also expects her to pay for home improvements such as new carpets and bathroom, a new car, a holiday home and holidays.
No, he wanted them to share the cost of home improvements, and seeing as how the family and household income has just doubled in size, I think it's pretty sensible to start thinking about that.
The 'new car' is because OP gets a car allowance, and he wanted her to get something more suitable for their six person family. But OP wants a sports car...

The op wasn't even asking to be put on the deed, she just wanted some protection. Currently all she's doing is making his life better
Well, she's sending mixed messages then because she has explicitly told him that she doesn't want any claim on his house or to interfere with his kids' inheritance. And she is doing the same for her kids, and fair enough. But she does suddenly want some sort of legal protection that will let her stay in the house for... six months? One year? Until she dies? And keep in mind that she has only been living with him for a few months, this isn't something she is asking for after ten years.

She already had a sweet deal where she was expected to pay less than her fair share, and now she's throwing it away because the you-go-girl LTBers convinced her that adults shouldn't have to pay for their housing.

[quote Hont1986]**@fulanigirl I think you should rtft.

She's paying half the mortgage and a higher proportion of the bills.
She should be paying more than half the bills anyway because she is the higher earner! And she has started to refuse to pay towards the mortgage and the higher share of the bills.

He also expects her to pay for home improvements such as new carpets and bathroom, a new car, a holiday home and holidays.
No, he wanted them to share the cost of home improvements, and seeing as how the family and household income has just doubled in size, I think it's pretty sensible to start thinking about that.
The 'new car' is because OP gets a car allowance, and he wanted her to get something more suitable for their six person family. But OP wants a sports car...

The op wasn't even asking to be put on the deed, she just wanted some protection. Currently all she's doing is making his life better
Well, she's sending mixed messages then because she has explicitly told him that she doesn't want any claim on his house or to interfere with his kids' inheritance. And she is doing the same for her kids, and fair enough. But she does suddenly want some sort of legal protection that will let her stay in the house for... six months? One year? Until she dies? And keep in mind that she has only been living with him for a few months, this isn't something she is asking for after ten years.

She already had a sweet deal where she was expected to pay less than her fair share, and now she's throwing it away because the you-go-girl LTBers convinced her that adults shouldn't have to pay for their housing.[/quote]

I think he’s trying to eat his cake and have it. Why should she be paying more than half the bills and home improvements etc as if they are a family? They are not if he doesn’t want to provide her any form of protection for the money she is investing into their lives. Also the op was asking about the future, not saying now. It’s his reaction that’s the problem. Completely unwilling to discuss anything and replied with just trust me. Who would make financial decisions on just trust me?

They should keep their finances separate and she pays him rent plus bills but certainly not his mortgage. It doesn’t matter if she’s the higher earner, she just needs to pay her share and nothing more. It’s crazy to ask someone to pay for home improvements on a home they don’t own and will never own. It’s like asking your sibling to help pay for your new bathroom just because. No one is saying she shouldn’t pay anything, but she is not there to provide him a better life at the expense of her own children. If he’s putting his children first why shouldn’t she?

@Hont1986

• She already had a sweet deal where she was expected to pay less than her fair share, and now she's throwing it away because the you-go-girl LTBers convinced her that adults shouldn't have to pay for their housing.

No she’s paying more than her fair share: she’s paying exactly half + more on utilities in case they increase. She said:

I am paying essentially more than half (as currrntly I’ve seen no evidence that the bills have increased) he is indeed the one in a much better situation with me living there

• The 'new car' is because OP gets a car allowance, and he wanted her to get something more suitable for their six person family. But OP wants a sports car...

Did you actually read the post?

She has a car allowance because she needs it for work - motorway driving. He wants her to buy a people carrier that he can use during the week but she only gets to use at weekends -ie. not use for work which is what the car allowance is for.

And why on earth would she pay towards new bathrooms, bedrooms, carpets for a house that she doesn’t own? He could use her money to do up his house and then throw her out on the street.

Don’t know whether this is naivety, poor maths or poor reading skills.

No, her fair share is whatever the ratio of her income to his is. She's said that her's is much higher, even just on basic salary. So splitting proportionate to their incomes, which is much fairer than a straight 50-50, her fair share is higher.

The car one I don't think we have enough details. Now that the family is a couple and four kids, I do think they need a people carrier, and I also think it's sensible for her to use her smaller, existing car for work while the family car is used during the week for the family. This would all be common sense stuff if we were discussing a man.

She should pay for new bathrooms, bedrooms, carpets etc because she and her kids are using them, and will be for the next 20 years or more? As she said in her OP, "you either want to build a life with someone or you don’t???" She can't expect to live there for free.

@Hont1986

We have plenty of details about the car issue as the OP wrote it our very clearly. Perhaps go back and read it.

Why should she invest in home renovations in a house she has no financial interest in? It’s literally throwing money away. He takes all the benefit of any appreciation in value that accrues, and she has nothing to show for it. She’d be much better off refurbishing her own property.

Of course, what neither you nor he seem to be aware of that if she did pay towards his mortgage and house renovations over 20 years then she could legally establish a beneficial interest in the property in court.

Your screwed up reasoning is a good insight into how so many women get fucked over by men financially because they literally can’t see the wood for the trees.