Vaccine arguments are pulling us apart

[SmithCW]

Hi everyone,

This is really hard for me to talk about as I know how judgemental some people are over anything COVID related. So, both me and my husband aren't vaccinated against COVID. At first it was because we weren't old enough (mid 20s) but when it became available for us we, like many of our peers, were hesitant to take the leap. The vaccine felt too new and we knew we would be TTC within the next few months and wanted to make sure it would be safe. My husband felt strongly that he didn't need it (98% survival rate for his age).

Over time there's so much more evidence about the side effects and whatnot and that coupled with the extreme pressures from society I've wanted to get vaccinated for the last few months. Problem is - he doesn't and really doesn't want me to either. His family (my in laws) have flipped and gone massive anti-vaxx in all the crazy extreme ways (they want us to promise we'd never get it) and although my husband isn't like that I can't help but feel he is heavily influenced by his family but he thinks I'm heavily influenced by mine (all had the vaccine and are desperate for me to).

It's hard to put this into words or to make people understand but I now feel CONSTANTLY anxious over this - it's like a dark cloud that follows me around. I feel like a black sheep in society and I HATE IT. But I'm also not ready to risk my marriage over it? I am so scared this will tear us apart and we are only newlyweds. We got married in Aug and have been TTC since. I just don't know what's right here. His family (especially his mum) are so full on about it that I genuinely think they'd cut me out for being vaccinated but I've been with him for 8 years and his parents are like parents to me - I'm so so scared of upsetting them. It's also sooooo hard when your husband is begging for you not to have it. He says he probably will get it eventually but not for a few years when he feels extremely confident that it won't have any future effects on our children and that we can't possibly know it won't for sure as it's not been around long enough.

I know he sounds OTT but he is honestly the most chilled guy - this is so unlike him. I have this fear that if I go and get it he: a) might just leave me. B) if I were to miscarry/ anything wrong with our child he'd blame me C) I'd tear him away from his family. They would bring this up at EVERY family gathering for years to come.

I know a lot of you will just say "your body your choice" and "good riddance" if he'd leave me but in reality that's a very, very different situation. I suppose I'm looking for some GENUINE advice here. I feel like it's breaking me apart and I can't cope anymore but I love him. I'm not stupid or naive here but I want a way to navigate and handle this in the right way.

Sorry for the long post and I hope I don't cause too much controversy- that's not my aim.

The vaccines don't affect fertility, it's frankly embarrassing that anyone would think it would. Your husband is a controlling idiot, I'd be more concerned about passing on his stupid genes to a future child than anything vax related.

Its not up to him whether you get vaccinated or not. If you want the vaccine just get it done. You don't need anyone else's permission.

You've said that he won't be comfortable lying to his mum if you have the vaccination.
why the F**k does he have to tell them? It's none of their business!! You don't owe them any explanation.

I would stop TTC until you have some very serious discussions. You were clearly young when you got together and it sounds like his parents have way too much control over both of your lives.

It goes beyond Covid vaccinations, you say he promises your kids can have their jabs. But you REALLY NEED TO REALISE having kids is a big series of decisions that you may sometimes need to compromise on: pain relief in birth, breast v bottle, return to work, nursery v child minder, school, parenting styles - the list is endless and ever lasting way into their teens. If you cannot stand up for your choices you are making for YOUR body then what chance do you have when you have kids and your MiL is influencing what he wants - both with your body and the raising of your child?
Time for you to stand up for yourself and your body!

Would your MiL change a personal choice for herself because YOU don't agree with what she wants to do? - I doubt it.

@sosijrol, if you post something on social media you don't get to make orders about whether other people respond with their opinions or not. And in fact I was responding with facts, not an opinion.

Please don't tell me you are seriously contending that anyone contracted aggressive stage 4 cancer from a vaccine. The vaccine uses Messenger RNA which can't go into the nucleus of cells where DNA is contained, therefore it cannot combine with DNA to change genetic code. mRNA vaccines use a tiny piece of the coronavirus’ genetic code to teach your immune system how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response if you get infected. The mRNA is fragile, so after it delivers the instructions to your cells, it breaks down and disappears from the body within around 72 hours. Once again, that's fact, not an opinion. No-one claims that the vaccine is entirely free of side effects, no vaccine is; but unless you can tell me that 900 people a day are dying from the vaccine then the stats simply aren't in your favour.

Honestly, this is chilling. So many things that worry me:
the fact you have already been married since August but you are already TTC
The fact that you have no family support on your side
The fact that you are so afraid of his family.
The fact that he is so afraid of his family and allows them to make medical decisions
Never mind the covid vax; it looks like you will be their puppet for the rest of your life.

Do not have children with this man.

Also, would you want his parents as grandparents?

The people I know personally were totally fit and healthy before falling ill within weeks of their second jabs/booster
To make a general point on this thread, not to discuss anything with sosijrol, people often seem to be fit and well before being diagnosed with cancer or falling ill for other reasons.

When 80 percent and more of a population get three jabs in a year, some of those are going to be diagnosed with an illness the same year.

I get it, I was in a very similar situation myself. Family are anti-vaxx and not the stupid moron type, my mum spends hours every evening reading academic papers and listening to lectures and basically convinced us we would be harmed if we had it (we also both had covid and are young/healthy). We put it off until about 2 weeks ago, as we want to go to a friend's wedding abroad so in the end it came down to that. However I never told my husband that he couldn't have it done, so I think it is wrong that your husband is dictating to you what to do with your body. It should be your choice and yours only.

You don't have to tell his family if you get it - we're not telling mine as it would be endless grief and shouting.

How would he react if you said you had thought it through and have decided you want to get it now, before you get pregnant?

The vaccine is not the real issue here. His controlling behaviour is.

I find it worrying how much power you are willing to hand over to your DH and his parents.

Why on earth would he want you to wait until you’re pregnant? It’s a delaying tactic, see it for what it is. It’s not a compromise.

The people I know personally were totally fit and healthy before falling ill within weeks of their second jabs/booster

Are you seriously saying that the vaccine and stage 4 cancer are somehow connected? Wtaf? That’s a whole new level of stupid.

So he wants to make sure you're pregnant before there's any further discussion on making a vaccine appointment?
Honestly OP, I'm sure you feel he's your soulmate or whatever, but this sounds so dodgy.

There are plenty of threads on here from women who’s DH’s have gone conspiracy theory nuts. But they’ve got kids and are debating leaving their marriages but feel stuck. Don’t let that be you.

@ravenmum

So he wants to make sure you're pregnant before there's any further discussion on making a vaccine appointment? Honestly OP, I'm sure you feel he's your soulmate or whatever, but this sounds so dodgy.

This. It's so worrying... the speed at which he wants to make sure she is knocked up. What's the damn hurry if you are in your mid-twenties?

I think it's selfish to not protect yourself AND be actively trying to conceive a child.

And he doesn't want you to take a vaccine now but if you're pregnant he might change his mind? That is all sorts of messed up and confused.

You need to decide what you want, and then do it. You are not your husband's property. He should not get to make your choices for you.

[quote GoodPrincessWenceslas]@sosijrol, if you post something on social media you don't get to make orders about whether other people respond with their opinions or not. And in fact I was responding with facts, not an opinion.

Please don't tell me you are seriously contending that anyone contracted aggressive stage 4 cancer from a vaccine. The vaccine uses Messenger RNA which can't go into the nucleus of cells where DNA is contained, therefore it cannot combine with DNA to change genetic code. mRNA vaccines use a tiny piece of the coronavirus’ genetic code to teach your immune system how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response if you get infected. The mRNA is fragile, so after it delivers the instructions to your cells, it breaks down and disappears from the body within around 72 hours. Once again, that's fact, not an opinion. No-one claims that the vaccine is entirely free of side effects, no vaccine is; but unless you can tell me that 900 people a day are dying from the vaccine then the stats simply aren't in your favour.[/quote]
My comment was to OP demonstrating that a husband and wife need to respect the opinion of the other. I made decisions for my body based on what I felt was right for me for the reasons given and so did my husband for him.
Yes thank you, I have read the same facts as you. And no I haven’t once suggested stage 4 was “contracted” from a vaccine, however, it’s clearly had an effect on the immune system (which deals with cancerous cells on a continuous basis) of at least three people to allow cancer to grow wildly out of control. Perhaps it’s a quirk in their specific dna, a faulty gene, who knows? But as I said, personally, I know more people that have become seriously ill after having their vaccines than people who have been seriously ill with covid-19. My decision, for me. For the reasons noted. Doesn’t affect you. Not sure why you’re getting so upset over it.

@sosijrol
golly are you the grim reaper?

"thepeopleversuswork
@sosijrol

I personally know too many people who are seriously ill because of the vaccine.

You are aware, aren't you, that the chances of becoming seriously ill with COVID as a pregnant woman are far far greater than your chance of becoming seriously ill from the vaccine?

When you say "seriously ill" what do you actually mean? Can you describe how this serious illness manifests itself? Because I'm sure its not anywhere near as serious as the risk from COVID.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/11/one-in-six-most-critically-ill-patients-are-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-with-covid
Thank you that input but I make my own decisions based on what’s right for me and all my circumstances. I’m well aware of what you’re trying to ‘educate’ me about. My comment was to OP, I did not ask for your opinion, thanks.
Well, how serious does aggressive stage 4 cancer sound? How serious does do cardiac issues sound? Neurological? Unable to walk?? The people I know personally were totally fit and healthy before falling ill within weeks of their second jabs/booster."

@ravenmum

The people I know personally were totally fit and healthy before falling ill within weeks of their second jabs/booster To make a general point on this thread, not to discuss anything with sosijrol, people often seem to be fit and well before being diagnosed with cancer or falling ill for other reasons.

Well exactly. Attributing a Stage 4 cancer to the vaccine is quite a leap. My Dad was in robust health before very rapidly succumbing to melanoma which spread to his brain. In fact, he enjoyed a very active skiing holiday in the January, continued taking long bike rides and hikes through the Springtime and then died at the beginning of August. It happens.

My Dsis is in a very similar situation. Her Dh is an extreme anti-vaxxer. He would go to prison rather than be forced to get the vaccine. He has his reasons- some of which are very compelling (he is ex-forces). She feels that if she gets the vaccine, he will never let her forget it and will always hold it against her. I dont care who has it and who doesn't but no one should be influencing another person's choice. I feel for you as I do for my sister

The only people I know who became seriously ill with Covid did so before there were any vaccinations.
When most of the people you know are vaccinated, then you won't know many who get seriously ill; that's what the vaccines are for.

This. It's so worrying... the speed at which he wants to make sure she is knocked up. What's the damn hurry if you are in your mid-twenties?

^^

I asked for advice on how to navigate the conflict this is causing in my marriage not your opinion on when YOU think is acceptable time for me to want to get pregnant.

So sorry waterlego, a family member had this, way before the pandemic. It's a very cruel disease.

Now we have hospital beds filling up with the unvaccinated and cancer patients who could have been saved have reduced opportunity for treatment.

OP, I think you've had a lot of bad advice on this thread.

I don't think your situation, or the feelings in it, are all that odd. These are the kinds of questions and differences of opinions and decisions that come up in families and relationships. Of course we want our spouse to do what is safe, of course a husband is concerned about the safety of his unborn children with relation to medical treatment, of course people are influenced by the views of their families and prefer to keep a certain amount of peace.

And it's not at all weird to have hesitations about new drugs and treatment to come on to the market. Lots of medical professionals and drug researchers do as well, in a lot of ways it's the more knowledgeable approach, but of course its got to be balanced with the consequences of not taking the medication.

Most of the time these things are navigable, but I think what has happened here is that society and the media are so focused on these things, and they've come to represent such bizarrely entrenched, often highly moralized, ways of thinking, that every thought and emotion has become amped up to the max. That makes for so much more anxiety and pressure, and under those circumstances it becomes almost paralyzing to try and make a decision.

What I would do in this situation is try and ramp down the pressure. I would have a talk with your husband, say you want to think about it a bit more but that the issue around pressure from family is a real problem and is making it impossible to think through. Ultimately, they really should not be a factor in your decision, you know their thoughts, that's enough. So see if you can get him to agree to keep it private, or if necessary instruct his family to back off, and you can take the same approach with your family. If they decide to go so far as to cut you off, you can't control that, but sometimes you just have to let others make those decisions - FWIW I doubt it would go that far.

Then I would agree with your dh not to talk about it for a few weeks, and also I would really cut out media consumption that touches on the pandemic, especially related to the vaccine. It won't work 100%, but there is really no real new information that has to be kept up with on a day to day basis.

If you can get the anxiety around it down to more reasonable levels, you may be able to make a more sensible decision about the vaccine and the degree to which you think you should compromise with your husband's views.

Please do not get pregnant without getting vaccinated first. The statistics are nothing other than FUCKING SCARY!!!! (Pardon my language, but this calls for it!)