Vaccine arguments are pulling us apart

[SmithCW]

Hi everyone,

This is really hard for me to talk about as I know how judgemental some people are over anything COVID related. So, both me and my husband aren't vaccinated against COVID. At first it was because we weren't old enough (mid 20s) but when it became available for us we, like many of our peers, were hesitant to take the leap. The vaccine felt too new and we knew we would be TTC within the next few months and wanted to make sure it would be safe. My husband felt strongly that he didn't need it (98% survival rate for his age).

Over time there's so much more evidence about the side effects and whatnot and that coupled with the extreme pressures from society I've wanted to get vaccinated for the last few months. Problem is - he doesn't and really doesn't want me to either. His family (my in laws) have flipped and gone massive anti-vaxx in all the crazy extreme ways (they want us to promise we'd never get it) and although my husband isn't like that I can't help but feel he is heavily influenced by his family but he thinks I'm heavily influenced by mine (all had the vaccine and are desperate for me to).

It's hard to put this into words or to make people understand but I now feel CONSTANTLY anxious over this - it's like a dark cloud that follows me around. I feel like a black sheep in society and I HATE IT. But I'm also not ready to risk my marriage over it? I am so scared this will tear us apart and we are only newlyweds. We got married in Aug and have been TTC since. I just don't know what's right here. His family (especially his mum) are so full on about it that I genuinely think they'd cut me out for being vaccinated but I've been with him for 8 years and his parents are like parents to me - I'm so so scared of upsetting them. It's also sooooo hard when your husband is begging for you not to have it. He says he probably will get it eventually but not for a few years when he feels extremely confident that it won't have any future effects on our children and that we can't possibly know it won't for sure as it's not been around long enough.

I know he sounds OTT but he is honestly the most chilled guy - this is so unlike him. I have this fear that if I go and get it he: a) might just leave me. B) if I were to miscarry/ anything wrong with our child he'd blame me C) I'd tear him away from his family. They would bring this up at EVERY family gathering for years to come.

I know a lot of you will just say "your body your choice" and "good riddance" if he'd leave me but in reality that's a very, very different situation. I suppose I'm looking for some GENUINE advice here. I feel like it's breaking me apart and I can't cope anymore but I love him. I'm not stupid or naive here but I want a way to navigate and handle this in the right way.

Sorry for the long post and I hope I don't cause too much controversy- that's not my aim.

@SmithCW he doesn't get to decide when you have the vaccine. He is delaying for now and will have his argument ready for when you are pregnant. He is not considering your best interests - I would seriously consider my future with him.

Also, people commenting on wanting to have a baby - inappropriate and bizarre. It's hardly abnormal for a couple married after 8 years together to want to have kids. Lots of people have had babies in the last two years.

Basically @SmithCW if you want it, get it. If your husband can’t respect your choice then you need to think about the future. There’s no need to include your in laws in this matter as it’s your body, it has nothing to do with them. If you want to tell your husband that’s up to you, but you shouldn’t feel you need to keep a decision wholly yours a secret. If either your husband or his family treat you any differently for choosing to get it, frankly, are they worth your time?

@SantaClawsServiette

Also, people commenting on wanting to have a baby - inappropriate and bizarre. It's hardly abnormal for a couple married after 8 years together to want to have kids. Lots of people have had babies in the last two years.

This!!

I can appreciate comments over the risks being unvaccinated whilst pregnant (I share the same worries) but not about wanting to have a child.

Plus - I AM going to get vaccinated. Again I wanted advice on how to handle that.

@Nodancingshoes

My Dsis is in a very similar situation. Her Dh is an extreme anti-vaxxer. He would go to prison rather than be forced to get the vaccine. He has his reasons- some of which are very compelling (he is ex-forces). She feels that if she gets the vaccine, he will never let her forget it and will always hold it against her. I dont care who has it and who doesn't but no one should be influencing another person's choice. I feel for you as I do for my sister

I'd be interested to know why your brother in law being ex forces would mean that he would know better than scientists?

I think a lot of the anti vaxxers (especially for covid) are the ones that would always kick back against vaccines or ‘control’ as they see it by our government.

I was listening to radio 4 today and an NHS worker who worked in A&E was begging people not to go to parties, get jabbed and told of a pregnant young woman who’d died after getting covid. In the next breath we had a man who was divorced with 3 kids who was planning to take them to a theatre event with mask wearing but in the adjoining restaurant there was no mask wearing. He thought people were being unfair to the arts and they’d be fine. My neighbour has just returned for a holiday/part secondment from Canada via London and all her immediate family including 3 kids under 10 have got covid and now have to self isolate and can’t travel round northern England and Scotland to see family. They’re vaccinated including kids more than most as Canada demands it. Family friend of the DH living in same street with 2 young kids thinks everyone will get it…

My worries are also about this and next month. As I can see people getting covid, omicron and also flu, pneumonia and other respiratory diseases and getting really ill.

DB with other family in another part of UK, was supposed to go to a pantomime with his young son and Wife and his family and he said no, too many family members who are at risk from covid and also if they catch it and bring it back to London they have few options for childcare if their son is off nursery.

@SmithCW - if you’re going to get vaccinated I honestly wouldn’t tell anyone for now as it’s bound to cause a shit show and to be honest it won’t matter if you tell a white lie about this. Have a good think for long term though if he’s who you want to be with with such rigid views (and his family).

@SmithCW it's good that you have had the discussion but again it's not for him to pressure you at what point you get the vaccine.

No doubt it will then become don't get it in 1st trimester because of X or whatever he has come up with.

Here go watch this session or read the blog from leading Dr's covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-19-pregnancy-questions

It does not effect fertility.

You clearly disagree with the family so just get vaccinated and own your decision. They don’t control you!

I’m guessing BIL may have had some bad experience with an anthrax vaccination or similar but that’s completely different. Be your own person.

[quote Scottishskifun]@SmithCW it's good that you have had the discussion but again it's not for him to pressure you at what point you get the vaccine.

No doubt it will then become don't get it in 1st trimester because of X or whatever he has come up with.

Here go watch this session or read the blog from leading Dr's covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-19-pregnancy-questions

It does not effect fertility.[/quote]
I have the same worry. Hence why we've taken the afternoon for the conversation to settle. I raised this multiple times and I'm not saying that I will wait until I'm pregnant either - it's all part of the conversation.

@sosijrol

I’m sorry but the people you know who have developed cancer and cardiac issues have not done so because of the vaccine. This is not medically credible. Surely you must realise this?

Please be really careful posting stuff like this on a thread started by a woman who is in an abusive relationship: it’s pretty irresponsible.

sosijrol Correlation is not causation.

I mean I know someone who broke their leg after their vaccine. They were perfectly healthy before hand….

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@sosijrol

I’m sorry but the people you know who have developed cancer and cardiac issues have not done so because of the vaccine. This is not medically credible. Surely you must realise this?

Please be really careful posting stuff like this on a thread started by a woman who is in an abusive relationship: it’s pretty irresponsible.[/quote]
Woah... I would not say I'm in an abusive relationship at all. That's a strong presumption from one post.

We disagree on the matter and he's not handled it well. A lot of my thread was about MY insecurities and worries around the reaction of people. In all honestly - they might not even react that way. That's something I have to accept and I need to put my foot down and deal with that.

[quote godmum56]**@sosijrol
golly are you the grim reaper?

"thepeopleversuswork
@sosijrol

I personally know too many people who are seriously ill because of the vaccine.

You are aware, aren't you, that the chances of becoming seriously ill with COVID as a pregnant woman are far far greater than your chance of becoming seriously ill from the vaccine?

When you say "seriously ill" what do you actually mean? Can you describe how this serious illness manifests itself? Because I'm sure its not anywhere near as serious as the risk from COVID.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/11/one-in-six-most-critically-ill-patients-are-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-with-covid
Thank you that input but I make my own decisions based on what’s right for me and all my circumstances. I’m well aware of what you’re trying to ‘educate’ me about. My comment was to OP, I did not ask for your opinion, thanks.
Well, how serious does aggressive stage 4 cancer sound? How serious does do cardiac issues sound? Neurological? Unable to walk?? The people I know personally were totally fit and healthy before falling ill within weeks of their second jabs/booster."[/quote]
yeah and a tree fell down in next doors garden

@SmithCW

This. It's so worrying... the speed at which he wants to make sure she is knocked up. What's the damn hurry if you are in your mid-twenties?

^^

I asked for advice on how to navigate the conflict this is causing in my marriage not your opinion on when YOU think is acceptable time for me to want to get pregnant.

OK. But I am not the only one to think you are being controlled by your husband and his family.

The fact is we can all give advice but at the end of the day you will have to make the decision to get the vax.

My MIL is not educated- that is not an insult because she comes from a culture where women are not educated- and believes in all kinds of natural cures and hocus-pocus. ( she is vaxxed though) I smile, move on and do exactly what I please with my own DC.

@Jarbed

I know a lot of you will just say "your body your choice" and "good riddance" if he'd leave me but in reality that's a very, very different situation.

You know when people come onto mumsnet asking for advice because their arsehole husband is making them miserable but they have kids and/or she's not financially independent or whatever, and people say "Why did you marry and have kids with this guy in the first place??"

Well here's your chance to not be one of those people in a few years' time. Don't marry and have kids with an arsehole. I don't see why you think people shouldn't advise you that someone who would leave you for getting a vaccine is a dick.

This ^ @SmithCW

I don't think you realise just how fucked up it is that if you had the vaccine it is possible that your husband - the person who has literally just said his vows! - would leave you!

Massive blanket sized red flag.

His parents are an extra red flag.

Him not having his own opinions separate from his parents red flag, him getting his info from dodgy sources FB/Qanon/Youtube etc etc or having no sources at all, red flags.

I'm really sorry because it's not what you want to hear, and I'm not sure you'll believe it but this is not a healthy or good relationship. It sounds like there is likely going to be a lot of unhappiness in your future if things continue in this vein.

I'd maybe try and book in for some therapy sessions to work through some of this, your people pleasing is leading you in a worrying direction - and I mean aside from the Covid vaccine stuff, which I do think you should get asap.

@SmithCW A friend of mine’s parents were in a similar situation to this. Her fil didn’t want to get the vaccine and persuaded his wife not to get it either. Friend and her dh are triple vaccinated and they thought his parents were the same.

Last month friend’s fil and mil caught Covid and ended up in hospital. The fil died 3 days after going into hospital, but luckily mil has survived, though she is still very weak. Mil now feels very guilty and is blaming herself that she didn’t push for them both to be vaccinated.

Do what you think is best for you, it is up to your dh and in-laws to do what they want. If they are so selfish that they would cut you out, if you went by the recommended guidelines and got vaccinated, they are no friends of yours and not worth bothering about anyway. If your dh did leave you, if you got vaccinated, then I think you have dodged a massive bullet and were lucky to find out how controlling he is before you had children with him!

I would recommend that you use birth control, until you have resolved these issues between yourselves, and ask yourself how well you actually do know him!

I can agree about mother in laws...mine was a prime specimen, not malicious but had very stubborn ideas. Nod and smile!

What does seem odd is the amount of power OP has given to her husband. He might leave her if she goes against his wishes? Would she leave him if he opposes her wishes? I'd say not.

Your options are:

1. Not have the vaccine
2. Have it, but don't tell him
3. Have it, and tell him

I think if you're planning to have a baby, having the vaccine is wise because as others have pointed out, the risks of becoming seriously ill or dying from Covid are considerably higher if you're pregnant. They may not be huge but it's not a risk you'd want to take.

If you have it but don't tell him you might feel ill afterwards, and that would make him suspicious. Plus, lying in a relationship is rarely a good idea, particularly a big lie like this.

My inclination would be to have it and tell him afterwards but not before. That way he can't try and stop you. What do you think would happen under those circumstances? Would he be angry with you? Or just disappointed? I think if he became angry that might make me question the strength of the relationship. It is, after all, your body.

The evidence shows that the damage of covid onto your unborn baby would WAY outdo any potential damage that this vaccine might potentially do. Could you live with that?

Also it’s just ridiculous op. Is he against all vaccines in general? If you can’t listen to the most up to date evidence and smartest scientists and doctors, who is he going to listen to?

Op - from what you've posted, it does seem like you want the vax but worried about the reaction. I would say this is the perfect test to see if those saying you might be in thr early stages of an abusive marriage are right.

So go on the NHS website now and book a jab. Then tell him you've got your vaccine booked for tomorrow /Thursday/whenever you can get (take the soonest appointment you can). See his reaction. If its "ok. Im not getting it but fine." Then you've been worrying about nothing. If he tries to talk you out of it or gets angry you've not got his agreement first, then you know you have not a vaccine problem, but a controlling dh problem. If he accepts your choice, then fine. If he doesn't thats a sign he think he should have a say in what happens to your body. Huge problem.

If he tells his parents, then that's also a great big warning sign he doesn't see you as having the right to medical privacy from his parents.

This is actually great for you, few woman who end up in controlling /abusive marriages with dcs get a chance to see how bad it can be before they are stuck. Book a jab. Tell him. Sit back and see what happens.

Op surely the best time for you to be vaccinated is before you get pregnant? Vaccines don’t hang around in our system , they cause a reaction in our immune system. IF the vaccines were to affect the baby they would be more likely to do it if you got vaccinated while pregnant and not before. Or does your partner want you to go through pregnancy unvaccinated and have it after your child is born? But then what if you want more than one child?

In your position, I would quietly get vaccinated and not mention it.

If he would like for us to keep it a secret from his parents then that seems fine to me - much easier! But I doubt he'd want to lie to them for so long.

@SmithCW, irrespective of specific subject, I would put a very firm line in the sand immediately that your medical information is NOT to be shared with his parents in any way, shape or form unless you make the decision to do that yourself.

They have no business having an opinion on it, and he has no business giving them the information to do so.

Plus - I AM going to get vaccinated. Again I wanted advice on how to handle that.

Well done @SmithCW. Perhaps you could use what I said upthread, that you will respect his decision not to get the vaccine if he respects yours to get vaccinated.

I would not say I'm in an abusive relationship at all

The extreme views your husband holds does imply that he is rather controlling though because you stated in your first post that he doesn’t want you to have the vaccine. This is a red flag.

Christ on a bike! He's this controlling and youre considering having children with him??? Madness! Will he control the children like this too?
You should look for for a divorce, not TTC